To think ending the eviction ban just as the Indian variant is spreading is a very bad idea

[Tealightsandd]

Hundreds of thousands of families and vulnerable individuals could soon become homeless all around the same time. Just as the Indian Covid variant is starting to spread...

It's a potential public health issue - and a taxpayer one too. It will cost loads to house them all in expensive but cramped (ideal Covid spreading conditions) temporary accommodation.

Rent arrears can't just keep building and landlords need the rent paying. But mass evictions during a pandemic aren't the answer.

Lots of people have lost their jobs or are too ill with Long Covid to work. Many are struggling to pay their rent.

The solution is an increase to housing welfare benefits so that tenants can afford private rents.

Separately, rent arrears and severe anti social behaviour aside (which should be dealt with by the police as well as landlords), currently England allows no fault evictions. Tenants can and are evicted, despite being fully paid up on rent. Bad at any time. Potentially deadly during a pandemic.

I’m afraid you simply aren’t entitled to live in an area you can’t afford. Sure you can list an endless string of reasons ‘jobs/family/kids/health issues...etc’ but it doesn’t change a thing! It’s the same for everyone renters and owners alike, many home owners (myself included) have had to compromise on area in order to actually afford property.

And who does the low pod jobs then if no one can afford to rent on a low or even an average wage?

When we lived in London the rent on a two bed flat was around 1.5k a month. Not even for a grand place.

We couldn’t afford to live in the local authority that Dh worked for housing in without claiming top up benefits.

Yes, we moved 200 miles away in the end. But that shouldn’t have to happen.

@booksandnooks Municipal Dreams The Rise and Fall of Council Housing by John Boughton is a great enlightening read and one of the issues it covers is what is mentioned in that post. Social housing units are being demolished and less social housing ones are being put in their place.

And who does the low pod jobs then if no one can afford to rent on a low or even an average wage? When we lived in London the rent on a two bed flat was around 1.5k a month. Not even for a grand place. We couldn’t afford to live in the local authority that Dh worked for housing in without claiming top up benefits. Yes, we moved 200 miles away in the end. But that shouldn’t have to happen

It shouldn’t happen but it does and it’s just the way it is. It happened to us we had to leave our local very expensive city. Low paid jobs are done by people who commute in from cheaper areas

@StylishMummy I bet you believe in community and socialism when it comes to people all wearing masks and getting the Covid vaccine.

I’m afraid you simply aren’t entitled to live in an area you can’t afford. Sure you can list an endless string of reasons ‘jobs/family/kids/health issues...etc’ but it doesn’t change a thing! It’s the same for everyone renters and owners alike, many home owners (myself included) have had to compromise on area in order to actually afford property

Where the fuck do you think the key workers who have been getting us through all this live.

In April last year i posted on the Covid board that now was the time for key workers to go on strike because i knew that later on it would be back to the default setting of treating them like shit. And here we are.

@8monthsinandcranky

And who does the low pod jobs then if no one can afford to rent on a low or even an average wage? When we lived in London the rent on a two bed flat was around 1.5k a month. Not even for a grand place. We couldn’t afford to live in the local authority that Dh worked for housing in without claiming top up benefits. Yes, we moved 200 miles away in the end. But that shouldn’t have to happen

It shouldn’t happen but it does and it’s just the way it is. It happened to us we had to leave our local very expensive city. Low paid jobs are done by people who commute in from cheaper areas

Have you seen the price of commuting though? For a minimum wage job?

Plus it’s all a bit upstairs, downstairs isn’t it?

People who can afford to live in big cities or indeed most places in the SE served by the poor who are bussed in.

@Alexapissoff

I’m afraid you simply aren’t entitled to live in an area you can’t afford. Sure you can list an endless string of reasons ‘jobs/family/kids/health issues...etc’ but it doesn’t change a thing! It’s the same for everyone renters and owners alike, many home owners (myself included) have had to compromise on area in order to actually afford property.

And who does the low pod jobs then if no one can afford to rent on a low or even an average wage?

When we lived in London the rent on a two bed flat was around 1.5k a month. Not even for a grand place.

We couldn’t afford to live in the local authority that Dh worked for housing in without claiming top up benefits.

Yes, we moved 200 miles away in the end. But that shouldn’t have to happen.

By paying housing benefit to low paid people in high rent areas we are subsiding employers and landlords. If no one in the area can afford to live and do those jobs wages go up and rent comes down.

Why shouldn’t landlords be able to evict tenants who don’t pay rent? Or evict them because they desperately need to sell the property?

Landlords can be affected by long covid too, or may have lost their jobs or businesses in the pandemic. Some may be unable to make ends meet if they can’t evict. They’re not charities. What if the landlord was renting a flat elsewhere but lost their job during covid, and needs to move back into their own property? Should the landlords risk being homeless because they can’t evict tenants?

How about the tenants who don’t/can’t pay rent and are getting the landlords into huge amounts of debt?

By paying housing benefit to low paid people in high rent areas we are subsiding employers and landlords. If no one in the area can afford to live and do those jobs wages go up and rent comes down.

Honestly, I’d like to see that happen.

But it won’t because someone is renting those flats and houses and no bugger will rent to you on HB even if you are working.

7 years ago one of our landlords wanted to sell up. We went to 25 estate agents and were laughed out of them all and told no dss. That was despite Dh working full time (I was finishing my studies which included unpaid work as part of it).

In the end once agent took pity on us and called every landlord we knew. We had to supply my sons school report to prove he wasn’t a teenage delinquent amount many other personal references to prove we were all of good character before we were able to rent the house. It was humiliating.

So I don’t ever think if low pod workers were all forced out, prices would come down.

every landlord they* knew

@EmeraldShamrock

Even social issue ones? Because the irony is people pretend these are for the benefit of the landlord. I've worked in social housing a fair bit and they are almost always for the benefit of the terrified, exhausted neighbours. I've seen drug dealing, guns, hoarding with rats and mould, fire risks in apartment buildings with tenants tampering with the fire equipment, constant theft with threats so the neighbours don't want to complain. It is absolutely terrible that a nasty few ruin entire areas. Personally I think anyone who has antisocial behaviour should be housed in a barracks under guard. My friend got a beautiful 3 bedroom house after 10 years in a brand new estate, the council put all sorts in the estate the DC can't play out. Her home was broken into, her car got smashed up by neighbours fighting there's no divide of walls. Lots of big protection dogs and all the antisocial ones are well known so best avoided. She'll never get a transfer.

Yep! A lot of hand wringing over some of these total cunts who make peoples' lives a misery and worse and honestly the street is too good for them. I'd have to win the fucking lottery to get out of here.

Why shouldn’t landlords be able to evict tenants who don’t pay rent? Or evict them because they desperately need to sell the property?

Why don't you RTFT?

Where is the suggestion that Section 8 evictions are permanently banned?

I called for:-

a) At least for the immediate term because, you know pandemic, housing benefit levels to meet market rents AND arrears paid direct to landlord either from benefits or wages.

Longer term, more social housing.

b) the government to keep the promise made when elected to ban no fault no reason Section 21 evictions.

It's strange really. Lots with little or no care for the more unfortunate (all normal everyday people who've simply had some bad luck like job loss or illness particularly during a pandemic)....

...Indeed there's a lot of barely concealed contempt...

...which makes it all the more bizarre that there's a willingness to have massive amounts of their tax go on way more expensive than regular housing benefit temporary accommodation. Very strange!

@8monthsinandcranky

*We're being evicted in November (received our six months notice this month) and it's simply because the landlord wants to move back in No idea what we'll do*

Your LL isn't being unreasonable to move back into their own house OP. Many LL’s rent their only owned property out because they suddenly have to relocate for work...etc they are much more entitled to live in their property than you are. When you rent a property you aren’t entitled to stay there as long as you like. You rent on a contract, it’s only ever a temporary home for you.

Private rent in our area is more expensive than having a mortgage but we don't have the deposit money. Have tried the council and despite having 3 children (one who is under a year and one with additional needs) we are always about number 100+on the list

I’m afraid you simply aren’t entitled to live in an area you can’t afford. Sure you can list an endless string of reasons ‘jobs/family/kids/health issues...etc’ but it doesn’t change a thing! It’s the same for everyone renters and owners alike, many home owners (myself included) have had to compromise on area in order to actually afford property.

Lots of people are in the same boat
The answer is to stop landlords charging so much

A lot of buy to let mortgages stipulate you have to rent the property out at a specific amount for example 1.5x your mortgage amount. Others may be renting their only owned property whilst they rent elsewhere so need to maximise rental income. For many LL’s there’s a massive risk involved with renting in this economy/market and risking being stuck with tenants who don’t pay but can’t be evicted which is also hiking up prices. Being a LL isn’t fun or a charitable endeavour so will only ever be done by private people for either their own necessity or profit.

or even better only let people have one house

I think this would be a fab idea for all the professional couples currently sat on a small deposit with a decent income and would actually be able to buy the property’s made available. It would slightly reduce prices or at least increase property’s coming to market.

Wouldn’t help all those struggling families on low income/UC with several kids, no deposit and nothing left at the end of the month though would it? How would they get a deposit or mortgage and what happens to them once a young couple with no dependants and middle income has bought the house they live in from their LL?

Forcing LL’s to sell multiple properties won’t make those properties free or achievable for many and then there will be nothing on the rental market so those struggling will be entirely dependant on the council who will still be massively oversubscribed

Rent is so stupidly high that it will reach a point where no one will be able to afford to rent

Maybe but from what I’m seeing there’s basically nothing available to rent in our entire county and what does come up is taken immediately.

I know we're not entitled. I also know to move miles away isn't practical. People are loosing their jobs. We're incredibly fortunate to both have jobs now. When you have one child due to do GCSEs next summer and one who is likely to have extreme meltdowns about moving house never mind the area it's not that easy. Rent is high everywhere, it's not limited to just our area.

Lots with little or no care for the more unfortunate

I have plenty of care for those who are less fortunate and firmly believe that there should be freely available social housing for anyone who needs it. I certainly don’t want to see public money being poured into private landlords’ pockets.

But the bottom line is that some people are arseholes who blight the lives of others and couldn’t give a fuck. Those people are deserving of contempt.

It's strange really. Lots with little or no care for the more unfortunate (all normal everyday people who've simply had some bad luck like job loss or illness particularly during a pandemic)

What makes you think landlords are not ‘normal everyday’ people who have had bad luck like illness or job loss during the pandemic and need their property back urgently? Eg they need to end a tenancy so they can move their own family back into their property. It belongs to them after all.

There seems to be a misconception that all landlords are making profits or can afford to live without the rent from private tenants if those tenants can’t pay for a few months? Many landlords are people who moved away for work and rented out their home temporarily. Many lose thousands when tenants can’t/won’t pay and it takes months to evict non paying tenants. Often landlords suffer huge financial loss if tenants cause damage to property.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Lots with little or no care for the more unfortunate

I have plenty of care for those who are less fortunate and firmly believe that there should be freely available social housing for anyone who needs it. I certainly don’t want to see public money being poured into private landlords’ pockets.

But the bottom line is that some people are arseholes who blight the lives of others and couldn’t give a fuck. Those people are deserving of contempt.

👏👏👏

I know we're not entitled. I also know to move miles away isn't practical. People are loosing their jobs. We're incredibly fortunate to both have jobs now. When you have one child due to do GCSEs next summer and one who is likely to have extreme meltdowns about moving house never mind the area it's not that easy. Rent is high everywhere, it's not limited to just our area

I didn’t mean it in a critical or mean way I just think the position of the LL isn’t often considered other than with a ‘they’re unscrupulous millionaire and we are the hard done by downtrodden workers’ kinda attitude but that’s general across MN and not just specific to your post.

The rental market is far far far from perfect and in an ideal world there would be an abundance of social subsidised housing but that’s just never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.

Schemes like ‘right to buy’ is a fab example of how trying to help one generation of low income families just hugely screwed over the next. Yes they should have invested money in building new properties to replace the ones sold but it’s a vicious circle because what use is ‘well we’ve spent all the budget on building 500 new homes which will be ready in June’ to a family with 3 kids who are homeless in February??? You can see how the money just disappears and gets wasted on expensive temp solutions before long term fixes can be established.

The long and short of it though is just because councils can’t cope doesn’t mean people can start inflicting their social housing expectations onto private landlords. They’re not a charity and other than making sure they provide a safe and clean standard of accommodation they are entitled to do as they please with their own properties.

DH and I have been asked to relocate for DH’s job recently for a year. We could go rent somewhere in that area and rent out our family home to cover the cost of us renting elsewhere but instead we’ve turned down the job because we are terrified we’ll end up stuck in rental accommodation with tenants in our family home who refuse to pay rent/move out and let us and our two small children return. We can’t afford our mortgage and rent on another property so would be totally screwed. No doubt whilst our tenants complained about their ‘terrible selfish money grabbing LL’s’

@Alexapissoff

By paying housing benefit to low paid people in high rent areas we are subsiding employers and landlords. If no one in the area can afford to live and do those jobs wages go up and rent comes down.

Honestly, I’d like to see that happen.

But it won’t because someone is renting those flats and houses and no bugger will rent to you on HB even if you are working.

7 years ago one of our landlords wanted to sell up. We went to 25 estate agents and were laughed out of them all and told no dss. That was despite Dh working full time (I was finishing my studies which included unpaid work as part of it).

In the end once agent took pity on us and called every landlord we knew. We had to supply my sons school report to prove he wasn’t a teenage delinquent amount many other personal references to prove we were all of good character before we were able to rent the house. It was humiliating.

So I don’t ever think if low pod workers were all forced out, prices would come down.

But you’ve contradicted yourself here. The landlord took you reluctantly (based on wanting your sons school report) because they’d rather have you than an empty house. If there house was in such demand they probably would have gone for a more straightforward tenant

@Yawnthisway no, they “felt sorry for us” in the words of the estate agent. There were other people in the running. We were the ones who offered to pay 6 months rent up front and an extra £50 a month as we were desperate.
We had to get a loan from the inlaws, money talked to that LL.

And that was after being turned away from 25 other agents.

I didn’t mean it in a critical or mean way I just think the position of the LL isn’t often considered other than with a ‘they’re unscrupulous millionaire and we are the hard done by downtrodden workers’ kinda attitude but that’s general across MN and not just specific to your post.

I actually often find landlords are rich, but are very good at pretending they aren't. It's very easy to say that you have money worries, but when those worries are about whether you can afford to go the Maldives or Barbados for your holidays, I have zero sympathy. I don't think I have ever had a landlord that hasnt at some point told me about their money 'worries', when I am paying their mortgage plus extra for their profit. Its completely lacking in empathy and intelligence.

I do think landlords shouldn't be allowed to charge more than market value for a mortgage on their house. And if you rent per room, you split the value of the mortgage by the amount of rooms. I imagine many won't agree, but that's just proving my point above.

@Tealightsandd

No we need the opposite. Reduce housing benefit and stop paying out these ridiculous amounts for temporary accommodation.

You want children and the disabled on the streets?

You do like to catastrophe don't you.

Sometime landlords have to remove tenants, sometimes the tenants are not paying rent, shouldn't the landlord be able to remove them
Maybe the landlord doesn't want to be a landlord anymore, and wants to sell? Or doesn't want the stress any more

It's not black and white, it's many many shades of grey

And no, housing benefit should not be raised, as all that will do is raise rents. If anything they should be lowered, forcing rents down

a) At least for the immediate term because, you know pandemic, housing benefit levels to meet market rents AND arrears paid direct to landlord either from benefits or wages. The first won't happen because there would have to a be a slew of rent caps, controls and no government wants to stifle the open market - nor do many people who are aware that their pension pot probably relies on rental in some part. The second has been tried a few times. It is usually stopped because it smacks of treating renters like children, robbing them of agency.

Longer term, more social housing. Only if it is built where it is actually needed and not in green sites miles away. And only if it is proper social housing , not the hybrid bollocks we currrently have. And only if all monies raised are ring fenced for the upkeep and further building. No right to buy etc.

b) the government to keep the promise made when elected to ban no fault no reason Section 21 evictions. Only after they have strengthened S8 and give landlords faster access to courts to get rid of rpoblem tenants - and proper redress via CCJs etc.

And when they do that they need to add some more controls over the really bad landlords. Not the half arsed crap like the deposit protection fines, they only catch the good but clueless landlord that makes an error with the paperwork. Take the FFHH paperwork and make that the basis for a minmum standard of housing. Put ALL of the minimum standrads n one document, one piece of legislation instead of the piecemeal crap they have now.

Make renters, landlords, everyone aware of the new protections they have, the Ministry dedicated to housing

twitter.com/mhclg

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ministry-of-housing-communities-and-local-government

It's strange really. Lots with little or no care for the more unfortunate (all normal everyday people who've simply had some bad luck like job loss or illness particularly during a pandemic).... Some of whom are landlords... Any discussion here that is one sided only serves to increase the distance between the two, which won't help effect any meaningful changes,

...Indeed there's a lot of barely concealed contempt... Not so concealed round here when it is aimed at landlords

...which makes it all the more bizarre that there's a willingness to have massive amounts of their tax go on way more expensive than regular housing benefit temporary accommodation. Very strange! Different pots of money. Councils can balance their books by making up their own stupid rules - like "Don't leave the home you are not paying for/have wrecked until the bailiff arrives or you will have made yourself homeless and we won't house you. Oh! You didn't pay the rent? You wrecked the property? You've made yourself homeless, we can't help you, unless you have kids. We will send 100 miles thataway -->"

What we really need is a root and branch reworking of the whole benefits system.

And no, not a landlord. Yes, brought up in council housing, lived in private renting for all of my adult life until about 5 years ago.

OP, the government are expecting private landlords to run their business like charities, whilst introducing a higher tax on the business. How does this work?

Ultimately, all that additional tax the government is getting should be supporting those same landlords who are not getting their rent paid, but it isn’t.

It punishes these landlords after expecting more tax from them, yet you think it should reward those who can’t be bothered to pay their rent because they are better things to spend the money on.

Social housing don’t want these people/families and Isco lento happy to leave them the responsibility of private landlords .

In the end, those who are penalised are the good tenants and landlords, whilst those who take the piss get away with it.

It's very easy to say that you have money worries, but when those worries are about whether you can afford to go the Maldives or Barbados for your holidays, I have zero sympathy
As much a generalisation as stating that all tenants who don’t pay rent spent their HB on fags and alcohol.

Many landlords are nowhere close to living that fancy lifestyle. I make no money at all from the rent. 40% of it goes straight to taxes, you know, what goes to help the vulnerable. By the time I pay for insurance, gas, electric checks, repairs, replacements, all the things that benefits the tenants, pay interests and agency fees, I am just about breakeven. If ,y tenants stop paying, its money that will have to come out of my own earned income from my FT job.

As already said, it doesn’t stop to amaze me how some expect people like me to act as a charity, yet see nothing wrong of having to pay high tax on the business, unlike charities.

Barbados..... 😂😂😂
Try two jobs, 10 year old car and a TWAT of a tenant!!
Barbados 🙄