To think ending the eviction ban just as the Indian variant is spreading is a very bad idea

[Tealightsandd]

Hundreds of thousands of families and vulnerable individuals could soon become homeless all around the same time. Just as the Indian Covid variant is starting to spread...

It's a potential public health issue - and a taxpayer one too. It will cost loads to house them all in expensive but cramped (ideal Covid spreading conditions) temporary accommodation.

Rent arrears can't just keep building and landlords need the rent paying. But mass evictions during a pandemic aren't the answer.

Lots of people have lost their jobs or are too ill with Long Covid to work. Many are struggling to pay their rent.

The solution is an increase to housing welfare benefits so that tenants can afford private rents.

Separately, rent arrears and severe anti social behaviour aside (which should be dealt with by the police as well as landlords), currently England allows no fault evictions. Tenants can and are evicted, despite being fully paid up on rent. Bad at any time. Potentially deadly during a pandemic.

We were given our notice in November - never told it wasn't legal to evict during the pandemic?

I rang and begged for an extension as there was NOTHING on the private market suitable where we were needing to look, unless we wanted to pay £3-400 more than our current rent for the same or less space/house.

As if a pandemic hasn't been hard enough, we've also had to deal with packing up (were living with bare minimum at the moment with most stuff packed incase I find somewhere so we can move ASAP)

We've never missed a payment of rent, never had a less than perfect inspection.

Also - and this is key - housing benefit rates cover social housing rents (except the few market rent HA properties, which aren't proper social housing

Im well aware of this. Ive been posting about it on here for years. I have an extensive posting history on here about it under a previous username.

The problem with things like eviction moratoria is that they penalise good landlords, who do needed repairs, don't charge too much and house people in need. Those LLs don't have the massive reserves of pure business LLs.

The shit LLs just find ways around it and have the money to wait it out, while not doing repairs.

But this is what people vote for.

No @MontysRoseGarden Im HD

@MercyBooth

No *@MontysRoseGarden* Im HD

I was going to ask! Nice to see you!

Definitely a need for a radical change in direction on housing, in the late 70s there was a surplus of council housing, we need to urgently build to get back to supply meeting demand. Owning multiple houses shouldn't be an investment strategy.

Landlords do need to be able to evict, I've a friend, bought a house with additional flat so her father could move into it when he was ready, rented until then, now wants flat for her father, served tenants with notice, they're no going anywhere, her father's need to be supported is getting more urgent. Tenants have actually served her with a court order because they object to the noise she makes in her home!

No fault evictions are fecking awful. Our last landlord sent us an eviction notice. After four years renting no problem, they wanted to change the notice to sever the tenancy from two months to six. We asked them to re-consider keeping it at two, they said they would ask the landlord - then we received an eviction notice. I had a four and six year old and they expected us to move by first week in Jan - they refused an extension to get us through Christmas. They were absolutely ruthless - no loyalty at all for £48k in rent paid.

So, yeah, housing in this country absolutely stinks. I feel for landlords with mortgages - but tbh every landlord I've had to date hasn't had one.

And you @MrsTerryPratchett Great post btw Totally agree.

@MrsTerryPratchett

The problem with things like eviction moratoria is that they penalise good landlords, who do needed repairs, don't charge too much and house people in need. Those LLs don't have the massive reserves of pure business LLs.

The shit LLs just find ways around it and have the money to wait it out, while not doing repairs.

But this is what people vote for.

Yes so Section 8 can be tweaked if need be. There's no need for Section 21, which the government promised to ban two years ago.

Also, a lot of the rent arrears are because so many people have lost their jobs or got sick during the pandemic. So housing benefit needs to be increased to meet private rents - with arrears paid direct to landlord. (Even if just temporary during the pandemic).

@Tealightsandd you're just doing it again. I've questioned how you've come up with this notion of 100000s of families being made homeless soon and you still won't explain it/provide any support for your assertion. You just revert back to talking about children and disabled people.

@Pepperlypue

We were given our notice in November - never told it wasn't legal to evict during the pandemic?

I rang and begged for an extension as there was NOTHING on the private market suitable where we were needing to look, unless we wanted to pay £3-400 more than our current rent for the same or less space/house.

As if a pandemic hasn't been hard enough, we've also had to deal with packing up (were living with bare minimum at the moment with most stuff packed incase I find somewhere so we can move ASAP)

We've never missed a payment of rent, never had a less than perfect inspection.

I'm so sorry

There's no need for Section 21 no fault evictions.

Temporarily during a dangerous phase of the pandemic with the potential third wave coming, we need a ban on all evictions (rent arrears to go direct to landlord, either from benefits or wages).

Longer term, tweak Section 8 so landlords can evict for genuine reasons (but also more social housing needed).

[quote user1471457751]@Tealightsandd you're just doing it again. I've questioned how you've come up with this notion of 100000s of families being made homeless soon and you still won't explain it/provide any support for your assertion. You just revert back to talking about children and disabled people.[/quote]
Well then you're doing it too.
I asked first. The normal thing to do in a sensible conversation (something you claim you want) is to answer a question before asking your own.

As for your question. I'm off to bed soon so will have to find the links tomorrow, but it's been widely reported. The government itself acknowledges the issue (because it's going to cost the taxpayer bigtime paying for expensive temporary accommodation).

we need a ban on all evictions

Even social issue ones? Because the irony is people pretend these are for the benefit of the landlord. I've worked in social housing a fair bit and they are almost always for the benefit of the terrified, exhausted neighbours. I've seen drug dealing, guns, hoarding with rats and mould, fire risks in apartment buildings with tenants tampering with the fire equipment, constant theft with threats so the neighbours don't want to complain, and a couple so bad I can't even describe them because they are unique and identifying.

If I had my way we'd have massively more affordable and supportive housing, plus proper in patient treatment like we had before it was all closed. Staffed places for people with behaviour which needs managed, and affordable ownership within the reach of anyone who wants it.

We can house everyone, we just choose not to. And I'm willing to bet poor housing and homelessness has killed more people by millions than COVID. And is easier and cheaper to fix.

I agree with a lot of your post @MrsTerryPratchett

So you agree there's no need for Section 21 no fault evictions. Section 8 would cover the behaviour you describe. Section 21 on the other hand affects decent well behaved rent paying tenants like Pepperlypue

Also, evicting those tenants you describe doesn't solve the problem. They just get moved on somewhere else, dumping the problem on new neighbours (at huge cost to the taxpayer). Social services, police (and CPS and appropriate sentencing), and mental health services are needed in those cases.

Those tenants are a separate issue. A large number of tenants are unable to pay rent through no fault of their own. They've lost their jobs or too ill to work. Covid has massively increased this issue. The (short term during a pandemic at least) solution is raised housing benefit and arrears direct to landlord.

We can house everyone, we just choose not to. And I'm willing to bet poor housing and homelessness has killed more people by millions than COVID. And is easier and cheaper to fix.

Agree. And it's a major contributing factor in both the spread of Covid and the deaths. (As seen in ONS reports, before user1471457751 questions those facts).

Increased HB just means increased rents. It's a supply and demand issue.

And I agree we should end no fault evictions for bad LLs. The problem is good LLs sometimes use them to evict bad tenants to save the poor neighbours from being harassed and threatened for providing evidence for fault evictions. I've seen active threats, cars keyed, really nasty stuff. People get scared.

TL:DR tenancy law is a complicated wooly jumper. Pull one thread and other things unravel. I used to joke that after 30 years in housing if one more person said, "we should just..." I would scream. It's a complex issue with no simple fixes.

I see what you're saying. I think anonymous evident should be accepted (if it isn't already) and like I say Section 8 needs tweaking.

Meanwhile, what would your solution be for right now? During the Pandemic. Particularly for the many decent tenants who are unable to pay their rent through no fault of their own - often (but not always) because of Covid.

*evidence

My OP deals with this. We need to increase housing benefits so they meet private rents.
Temporary accommodate is massively more expensive than housing benefit on a regular private rental. Huge sums are already spent on it. It's often private landlords - but they charge 5-10 times the usual market rent for a property in very poor condition

But it doesn’t address where you expect that ‘extra funding’ to come from, given the country has just pretty much bankrupted itself to pay for a whopping furlough scheme that will still be being repaid by our great grandchildren

It seems many believe that benefits are a never ending pot and whilst I’m 100% to pro benefits in general I certainly acknowledge that now isn’t the time to be spending even more money as a country we really REALLY need to be tightening our belts significantly.

Why do you think 6 months notice to leave is not enough?

Like it or not tenants do not own the property. Harsh as that may sound it is a fact. You do not know anything about the landlord and why they may choose, need or want to sell a property that THEY OWN.

We own a property that we rent out. It was not inherited. It was an investment. I work two minimum wage jobs. I am not a minted landlord. We have not received full rent from our non working, not covid related, tenant. They can afford to smoke and drink but not pay their rent?

Why is it my responsibility to make sure they have a place to live?

It’s the real world out there. Get a job and look after yourself. You are a grown up.

As a side note my son rents a property. He was furloughed last year. He never missed a rent payment to his landlord despite not receiving full wages.

@Tealightsandd

Looks like most people aren't bothered. I'd rather my taxes were spent on housing benefits to keep families and children in their homes. Perhaps others here prefer the tax to go on more expensive temporary accommodation.

With regards to housing benefit, out situation always made me feel inbetween laughter and despair.

My Dh works for a local authority in London. In housing.

One day, one of the heads came in, she had only been in the role a few weeks and started spouting about how they needed to get the number of hosting benefits claimants down, work with other parts of the council to get them into work, or encourage them to move to cheaper areas.

Dh and his colleagues sat there open mouthed at her arrogance as they knew a massive percentage of claimants were working.

And guess what? Most of his team, including him claimed top up housing benefit too as local authority pay is so shit and housing costs in London so high and should they all leave their jobs and move somewhere cheaper then?

One of the team pointed that out to her and she apparently sat there doing a fabulous gold dish impression.

(She lasted 3 months).

@Tealightsandd sorry didn’t mean to quote you with my reply, I’m not sure what happened there

It is bad if they're left homeless.
Unfortunately some tenants have jumped on the bandwagon and stopped paying rent a year ago too.
I lost my job too and a renter but paying for the roof over my head comes first.

The rampant socialism on Mumsnet staggers me. Everyone has the right to a home if they can pay for it.

I feel so sorry for the landlords stuck with non-paying tenants, many of whom have played the game of the last year knowing they don't have to pay and the landlord can't do anything to move them on.

Councils shouldn't offer lifetime tenancies for a start, you should have the house for an initial 5 years, then review. We have single old people in family homes, why?!

Making money from housing on mumsnet is considered to be awful profiteering from the poor - but food/clothes/shoes/medicines etc can all be sold for profit? Ridiculous

We're being evicted in November (received our six months notice this month) and it's simply because the landlord wants to move back in
No idea what we'll do. Private rent in our area is more expensive than having a mortgage but we don't have the deposit money. Have tried the council and despite having 3 children (one who is under a year and one with additional needs) we are always about number 100+on the list.
Lots of people are in the same boat
The answer is to stop landlords charging so much or even better only let people have one house.
Rent is so stupidly high that it will reach a point where no one will be able to afford to rent.