Child maintenance

[Labh]

Need some advice... I have a 1 year old daughter. Me and my ex spilt when she was 4 months old. He Paid maintenance for couple months then refused so I went to CSA. He never paid for 4 months through them so they started taking the money from his work. I have never stopped him seeing our daughter even though he doesn’t want to financially support her. He has now quit his job so he doesn’t have to pay the money.
Part of me wants to stop him seeing our daughter because what parent quits there job so they don’t have to support there child. Dunno what to do....

[ParkItRay]

No you can't do that OP.

He's not right of course but you wouldn't be either if you stopped her from seeing him.

Contact is for your daughter, not him and it's not her fault he doesn't pay what he should, she still deserves the opportunity for a relationship with him.

She may decide for herself one day but you need to let her come to that herself. Don't give her any reason to blame you for a lack of relationship with her Dad.

[Rainbowqueeen]

Your role in contact is to make DD available. No more no less. He needs to do the rest ie collect her and provide what she needs.
So don’t stop contact but equally keep firm boundaries in place

[Atalantea]

Yes, it is total crap. A glib soundbite that is spouted 99% of the time I'm sure by people who have not split with the father of their child. It places blame on the shoulders of the RP and strongly implies they are an arsehole who treats their child like a subscription channel, when in fact it is the absent parent who is treating parenthood as an optional extra.

Bollocks

It's not a race to the bottom though, yes the non r parent who doesn't pay for their child is an arsehole, but what if the child wants to see them? You're only hurting the child twice

[Doorhandleghost]

It’s your child’s right to see her father (not his to see her).

Make her available at set times but don’t go any extra mile - eg if he wants you to drive her to him, say no she’s available for you to collect, if he doesn’t want to set a schedule then be very firm and set boundaries/set times.

Far too many men seem to do this - I mean really why would you go in benefits just to avoid paying child support? It’s vindictive and controlling.

You’re in it for the long haul tho - you’d be best off to accept that. My ex was an absolute fucker for years (we split up when dd was 1) trying to control the schedule, side step paying despite a v good job etc. 8 yrs later and it’s all much better - he pays regularly and for extras (we split those 50/50) and we have a set schedule for contact which he sticks to and we can amicably agree ad hoc changes because of jobs etc. But I’d say it only started to be like this 3 yrs ago - so 5 yrs of crap then 2 yrs of tentative ok and now it’s amicable.

His crap isn’t about anything except you and his bitterness about the end of your relationship. To do the best by your child you need to rise above it- she’s little now but you won’t want a 6,7,8 yr old caught up in that crap. Put your energy into being the safe and stable place for her.

[flyingtartar]

It's not a race to the bottom though, yes the non r parent who doesn't pay for their child is an arsehole, but what if the child wants to see them? You're only hurting the child twice

Sigh - I didn't say race to the bottom though did I? I said keep up the contact. What I massively object to is that phrase 'children are not pay per view.' It's glib, it misrepresents the situation and it's unhelpful and rude when thrown at OPs who are asking for advice. It's clear from the OP, as it pretty much always is, that she is far from sure that this is what she should do and that she has struggled with the man not taking financial responsible. She comes on MN and gets 'Children aren't pay per view, you know, OP!' It pisses me off. No one thinks they are pay per view but they're not free either.

However, despite this it's best to carry on the contact but I'd really like it if women didn't get that condescending reply just for asking the question.

[Labh]

Thanks for your advice and support on the ‘Children aren't pay per view’ I never said I was going to stop contact with her dad I just said part of me would like to but that’s not a fair on my daughter. I just think men who don’t want to support there children don’t really care about them, both of us have the responsibility to support her. I have never stopped him seeing her.

He expects me to drop her to him and pick her up sometimes which I don’t think I should have to do. He doesn’t stick to the days and times. He sometimes turns up late because he’s been out drinking the night before. He’s made it clear on text that he would rather have money for alcohol then his daughter

[Theunamedcat]

@Labh

Thanks for your advice and support on the ‘Children aren't pay per view’ I never said I was going to stop contact with her dad I just said part of me would like to but that’s not a fair on my daughter. I just think men who don’t want to support there children don’t really care about them, both of us have the responsibility to support her. I have never stopped him seeing her.

He expects me to drop her to him and pick her up sometimes which I don’t think I should have to do. He doesn’t stick to the days and times. He sometimes turns up late because he’s been out drinking the night before. He’s made it clear on text that he would rather have money for alcohol then his daughter

Time to.put your foot down a little? Set regular days if he wants to use you as a taxi say no your busy

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

It’s rubbish and we should have stronger laws to stop parents opting out of supporting children themselves.

However, if we stop non resident parents having access unless they pay we would have to do the same for resident parents who aren’t financially supporting their child themselves either. Plenty of both who let other tax payers do it.

[StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear]

Banning him from contact with your child because he isn’t paying child support is wrong. However, he is a shitcunt for quitting his job to swerve child support. Having said that he is financially neglecting his child so you might actually have a point OP.

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

There are some RPs who appear to have have the pay-per-view attitude towards non-paying NRP. There are, however, many for who the avoidance of paying towards their children is just one piece of the shitty puzzle. I am one of those I believe. Who begin to ask, what sort of person is this??? If contact with the NRP is in the interests of the child you do have to ask, is it in the best interests of the child to have ongoing contact with the sort of person who puts all their own needs, gripes, beefs and wants before the basic needs of this child?

[ElsieMc]

I totally sympathise, but if your dd and her dad have a decent relationship then you must be the better person.

I am a gp carer and spent years trying to get child support from his terrible father. In fact the CMS took out a liability order, sent bailiffs, a DEO and it went to Fraud twice.

My gs decided at 16 he didn't want to see his father anymore, but all this happened whilst he was seeing him! It just proves that even having the relationship with a father that Cafcass and the courts always promote, means very little to a man who thinks someone else will always pick up the slack.

This week it finally ended when the Fraud investigator negotiated a final settlement to clear the arrears. Yes, I have taken less but the relief at being free of CMS and him is worth its weight in gold. CMS are poor, but without them I would have got nothing for gs.

[IamMaz]

Child maintenance and contact are totally separate issues.
They are not reliant upon each other.

[bigbaggyeyes]

He's an absolute shit bag if he quit his job to get out of cm, however it's in your dd best interest to maintain a relationship with her df, as a op said, it's not pay per view

[HughGrantsHair]

Agree with the Theunamedcat. Set days and you're not a taxi.

[CombatBarbie]

@Labh

Thanks for your advice and support on the ‘Children aren't pay per view’ I never said I was going to stop contact with her dad I just said part of me would like to but that’s not a fair on my daughter. I just think men who don’t want to support there children don’t really care about them, both of us have the responsibility to support her. I have never stopped him seeing her.

He expects me to drop her to him and pick her up sometimes which I don’t think I should have to do. He doesn’t stick to the days and times. He sometimes turns up late because he’s been out drinking the night before. He’s made it clear on text that he would rather have money for alcohol then his daughter

He should be collecting her and dropping her back. DD may not be pay per view but you can stop being a mug. Put your foot down.

[Evergibbon]

I'd certainly stop putting myself put for him. You're not a taxi service. Tell him you can see her once a week at such a time ( or whatever suits you frankly?) He picks up and drops and that's it. Anything more he can apply for.

Fuck him, useless peice of shit

[bigbaggyeyes]

He expects me to drop her to him and pick her up sometimes which I don’t think I should have to do. He doesn’t stick to the days and times. He sometimes turns up late because he’s been out drinking the night before. He’s made it clear on text that he would rather have money for alcohol then his daughter

No, no and no.

Set out the times and days he sees her. For example he collects her on Friday after school/nursery from school or nursery (let's face it he doesn't have a job so can do this) Then drops her back to your house at 5pm Sunday. Do NOT take her to him. If he doesn't turn up then he forfeits that weekend. Do not wait in for him, if he's late go out, if he rings he can wait until you get home (don't rush home).

There's one thing not allowing contact, another bending over backwards for him. Just stop it, if he wants a relationship with her then he puts the effort in

[StopPokingTheRoyalTitDear]

Just seen that you are expected to drop the child off to him and pick her up again. Yeah nah. I wouldn’t be doing him any favours. Put your foot down. He can do all the pick ups and drop offs. He’s got lots of time on his hands now anyway.

[ThatIsMyPotato]

I'd just make sure she is available for contact at the time stated. He can do the pickup. Generously allow 30 minutes for him to pick up late (in case of traffic) then if he doesn't turn up he's missed his chance. I personally would collect her just so she knows you will always be there to get her if she hates it there but that's up to you.

[Breastfeedingworries]

I’m going to be unusual and go against the grain PPV.

I know it will eventually be awarded in court ect but I would stop all contact if my dds dad stopped paying and I made that very clear from the start. Had no issues, he always pays by direct debit and it’s through CSA. Tbf I told him I wasn’t bothered if he didn’t want to see her (I was very naive and so much in love with my dd) so I think my indifference actually drove him. He pays for everything when he has her, I send her with just spare clothes. He buys clothes, trainers extras and pays and he’s always early to pick her up. I know I’ve lucked out I just never imagined it would work out this well.

So I said pay or don’t see her basically, it isn’t just about the money, him not paying is not keeping a roof over her head and food on the table. I told him I wouldn’t trust him to care for her if he wasn’t meeting basic needs like that. I said I wouldn’t respect him, or trust him with dd, that he had her best interests at heart. I said I didn’t care if people didn’t agree. In fairness to him he gave me no reason to doubt he wouldn’t, but I made it clear.

Good luck op in whatever you do, most people might not think it’s morally right, but it can be effective.

[Breastfeedingworries]

Also he picks her up and brings her back to me, I rarely drop her, only if I’m in the area anyway.

[forinborin]

OP, I certainly understand how you feel and you are far from the only mother who felt that way.
Wanted to offer some support as well about "pay per view" declarations. Yes, it is wrong to deny the child a relationship with her father, but it very hard not to ask oneself WHY the other parent seems to prioritise himself over the child all the time - and whether this relationship is actually a healthy one.
I myself feel quite bitter handing over children to their Disney Dad for a couple of hours of fun on the weekend (he rarely makes it up to three hours - gets bored very quickly), knowing that I will spend that time cleaning the house, shopping for the week and ironing uniforms - because the rest of the time I have to earn money similar to a two-income family, as he pays only £1 / month. Financial support of the children and emotional/ parental support are NOT completely separate topics, as people like to claim.

[niceupthedance]

It's shit isn't it. DS's dad was happy to see him as long as he didn't have to pay anything towards his upkeep, since I went to the CSA and the money comes out of his wages he has not seen DS once. How's that for pay per view. DS was 6 by then and he was devastated

OP I guess you will just have to hope he has an attack of moral consciousness and contributes financially instead of being a layabout dickhead.

[Breastfeedingworries]

That’s disgusting £1! I’m horrified and cross on your behalf. I’m glad pay per view has a place, an i truly see it as the same thing, a decent father would pay. My sisters dad was like this, (she’s my half sister) it’s caused her no end of problems having him in her life, crying by the window waiting for him. Fuck that, I told dds dad if he’s ever late even I won’t let him see her that day! I’m not having her go through what my sister did and I told him that, tbf he’s never not seen her in 2.5 years.

[Seymour5]

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

It’s rubbish and we should have stronger laws to stop parents opting out of supporting children themselves.

However, if we stop non resident parents having access unless they pay we would have to do the same for resident parents who aren’t financially supporting their child themselves either. Plenty of both who let other tax payers do it.

Yes. That point is rarely mentioned on MN. Perhaps its because the majority here are not familiar with the concept, but having worked in social housing, I saw it quite frequently. Families where neither parent has a thought about their support other than benefits.

I hope things work out for the OP who is doing her best for her DC. She should take pride in that, however her ex behaves. Children grow up, and know which parent made the effort. Too many walk away from their responsibility.