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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"I Wanna Be Like You"

274 replies

SpottyOrange · 13/05/2021 16:33

Not sure if this is an AIBU but is that song from the jungle book racist?!
Yes: it's dated and awful
No: don't be daft

OP posts:
murmurflation · 13/05/2021 17:30

Because if you are making racist propaganda for children, you don't make your target characters intelligent and likeable. You make them lazy and stupid, and I think we could find plenty of works for children from the past with lazy black characters, aggressive Irish characters and devious Jewish characters.

MabelPines · 13/05/2021 17:30

You can analyse any piece of media and declare it racist if you choose to see it that way.

And it’s really easy to declare films made 60 years ago racist and then feel good about how much of an ally you are.

ThatIsMyPotato · 13/05/2021 17:31

"Dumbo (1941): A group of crows that help Dumbo learn how to fly have exaggerated stereotypical black voices. The lead crow is called Jim Crow - a reference to a set of racist segregationist laws in the southern US at the time - and he is voiced by a white actor, Cliff Edwards" from the BBC article I linked earlier.

SimonJT · 13/05/2021 17:33

@murmurflation

Because if you are making racist propaganda for children, you don't make your target characters intelligent and likeable. You make them lazy and stupid, and I think we could find plenty of works for children from the past with lazy black characters, aggressive Irish characters and devious Jewish characters.
The Jim Crow laws are represented as good and intelligent so they are likeable, they wanted the next generation to be pro segregation.
SmileEachDay · 13/05/2021 17:34

Simon, I really don't think they made the crows clever as a statement that the Jim Crow laws were clever

Why is the character called Jim Crow in particular, rather than any other name?

SelkieBe · 13/05/2021 17:35

All the other animals could talk so he was really an orang utan, who c9uld talk

murmurflation · 13/05/2021 17:36

I get it Simon, you don't have evidence for me. If I was on here supporting the Jim Crow laws or Hitler you could call me a racist, but I'm not.

languising · 13/05/2021 17:37

The crows are racist but the lions' colouring is not

ThatIsMyPotato · 13/05/2021 17:37

@LongPauseNoAnswer

Good fucking gods, just fuck off with this hyperPC shite.

I am thoroughly SICK of the whole thing

I'm pretty sure the people being racially stereotyped are sick of it too
ThatIsMyPotato · 13/05/2021 17:38

As in sick of the racial stereotyping

SmileEachDay · 13/05/2021 17:38

murmurflation

Why do you think the character was called - out of all the possible names - Jim Crow?

murmurflation · 13/05/2021 17:38

Agree that the crow actor being white is racist though.

murmurflation · 13/05/2021 17:40

If they're crows and Jim Crow is a stereotyped term for a black person why wouldn't he be called Jim?

BrumBoo · 13/05/2021 17:41

@MabelPines

You can analyse any piece of media and declare it racist if you choose to see it that way.

And it’s really easy to declare films made 60 years ago racist and then feel good about how much of an ally you are.

Disney began more like 80 years ago, and started by man with very well known racist views. The film industry at the time was very much white idealisms and propaganda. If you choose to ignore how these are represented in the films of the time, then that's up to you. However, the racism is there - it's not subtle or a matter of debate. That doesn't detract from the fact that Disney films were something quite special in terms of storytelling and animation. The films can be nostaglically brilliant and also be greatly flawed by today's standards, we can accept both as truth.
SmileEachDay · 13/05/2021 17:43

If they're crows and Jim Crow is a stereotyped term for a black person why wouldn't he be called Jim?

It’s a hugely racist term that is directly linked to segregation legislation but even if we go with your definition- you can’t see the issue with this? Really?

MilduraS · 13/05/2021 17:44

Isn't the racist part the suggestion that the character of an orangutan living in the Indian jungle is somehow representative of black people? I'm thoroughly confused.

MumUndone · 13/05/2021 17:46

Exactly. I'm not sure why the racism of early Disney films is even open to debate, it's well documented and well known. Just do a Google search and look it up yourself if you're not sure or don't believe this to be the case. Just because you don't recognise the racism doesn't mean it's not there.

MumUndone · 13/05/2021 17:47

My post was meant to quote Brumboo

LizzieW1969 · 13/05/2021 17:50

Disney began more like 80 years ago, and started by man with very well known racist views. The film industry at the time was very much white idealisms and propaganda. If you choose to ignore how these are represented in the films of the time, then that's up to you. However, the racism is there - it's not subtle or a matter of debate. That doesn't detract from the fact that Disney films were something quite special in terms of storytelling and animation. The films can be nostaglically brilliant and also be greatly flawed by today's standards, we can accept both as truth.

^I agree with this, it’s true of so many films that are shown at Christmas time every year.

ThatIsMyPotato · 13/05/2021 17:50

The hyenas in the Lion King are problematic for me. As well as the villan having a facial disfigurement but none of the good guys.

ThatIsMyPotato · 13/05/2021 17:50

Don't get me started on the little mermaid.

1forAll74 · 13/05/2021 17:54

Mostly everything is so offensive to loads of people these days.I think some people just go around looking for something or other, to be offended by. I don't know what good it does for them. !

murmurflation · 13/05/2021 17:55

I agree that racism is present in all sort of works from the past, and sometimes it's so offensive that the work is unwatchable/unreadable - for instance the original Dr Dolittle books. I don't see the point in being offended where you actually need particular historical knowledge to find something offensive. So for me that's the difference between being offended if the crows were depicted as lazy and stupid as opposed to being offended because they're crows.

SimonJT · 13/05/2021 17:59

@murmurflation

I agree that racism is present in all sort of works from the past, and sometimes it's so offensive that the work is unwatchable/unreadable - for instance the original Dr Dolittle books. I don't see the point in being offended where you actually need particular historical knowledge to find something offensive. So for me that's the difference between being offended if the crows were depicted as lazy and stupid as opposed to being offended because they're crows.
People wouldn’t be offended if Jim Crow was portrayed a lazy and stupid, because that would show thay they weren’t in support of Jim Crow laws.

So you don’t see the point in being offended by the glamorisation of segregation in America, so you’d also be happy for the Holocaust to be portrayed as positive, or apartheidin SA?

languising · 13/05/2021 17:59

@ThatIsMyPotato

The hyenas in the Lion King are problematic for me. As well as the villan having a facial disfigurement but none of the good guys.
It's a scar, from fighting because he's a bell end. It's not a facial disfigurement!

Fucking hell.

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