AIBU?
School interview
Allywill · 12/05/2021 13:26
My daughter completes her PGCE in a couple of months and is currently applying for teaching positions starting this Sept. She had an interview yesterday, was told on Friday, had to prepare a lesson to be delivered to year 10s, a head teacher presentation (titles of both only given Friday evening) and prepare for interview. Monday she was on her usual placement in school until 4 then had to travel (Cambridge to Burnley) by train Monday night arriving at 10pm. Had to be at school for interview on Tuesday 8am. So far so good. It’s a lot to do in a very short timeframe but I get that’s how they do it.
However when she got to the interview, only her and a RQT who was already working at the school had been short listed. At the end of the day she was told she did well but that they were giving it to the RQT.
Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed? I feel it was a box ticking exercise and they knew who they were employing - she was just there to ensure due process had been followed. It cost best part of £100 to travel to the interview and she didn’t get back until 11pm that night. She was exhausted, disappointed and £100 down. When I was applying for graduate jobs (years and years ago) we got travel expenses - these were in the main private companies but I also got reimbursed for a train fare from the NHS. I suppose at least she has had the interview experience but it still feels very unfair.
Am I being unreasonable?
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Dishwashersaurous · 12/05/2021 13:31
Even twenty years ago it wasn't standard to reimburse for interview expenses, public or private sector.
Does she want to live in Burnley?
The majority of people applying for teaching posts are likely to be applying in either the area they currently live or an area that they want to move to.
If she is going to apply for jobs a long way away from where she currently lives then obviously travel will be expensive and tiring.
PineappleWilson · 12/05/2021 13:32
As a recruiter, I'm also annoyed at the trend in moving away from paying travel fares for candidates. You've invited them to interview! I got a job in London at 21 but couldn't have paid for the fare unless I'd been reimbursed afterwards. I don't know that I'd be so cynical to say they only picked her to have a +1, as they'd have other applicants so could have asked someone who lived locally. A shame for her, but best of luck in her job search. Has she asked for feedback on what she could work on?
Scarby9 · 12/05/2021 13:36
It wasn't necessarily box-ticking, or even possibly box-ticking. I can think of plenty of times when the outsider has come through over an internal candidate in teaching.
She should ask for feedback, and try to get them to go beyond the 'less experienced" response, which I must say our PGCEs are hearing a lot this year too. There is nothing they can do about their length of experience, so what could the school suggest they do work on?
However, all that notwithstanding, not getting travel expenses is terrible. Is she sure? I don't know of any schools not offering travel reimbursement, but maybe that is just our area? The only situations I know where reasonable ravel isn't paid is where a candidate has turned down the job offer.
Next time, she should ask about expenses when called for interview, or even befote applying, and genuinely consider not going if she can't afford it.
LolaSmiles · 12/05/2021 13:42
If the school wanted to offer it to an internal candidate then they could. My school has given NQT jobs to trainees on placement instead of advertising.
I've also been at interviews where there were internal candidates and got the job over them.
It's disappointing, but she is better taking any feedback she can and using it for her next interview.
BrumBoo · 12/05/2021 13:42
Ah it's shit, but the way it is unfortunately. A friend of mine had similar. Went for a teaching position in a school they'd worked at years previously and it was pretty obvious from the moment they arrived that they were only there to fill an interview place. The school evidently had their preferred candidate (who unsurprisingly got the job), and it just felt like a huge waste of time. Unfortunately, often it will when you don't get a job anyway but the experience is absolutely worth it even if it doesn't feel that way now. My friend got the next job they went for, and has actually worked out much better for them, even though it's not the direction (literally) they intended to take.
Allywill · 12/05/2021 13:45
The only feedback they gave was she didn’t move round the classroom enough during the lesson. But she had been told on her placement not to do that due to COVID. Yes it was good practice I suppose and yes it’s not that surprising she didn’t get the first job she interviewed for but it has hardly a level playing field - the other candidate was teaching her own class. Oh well onwards and upwards and better luck next time I suppose. It was over 30 years ago I was applying for graduate jobs (I am 54) and I always got travel expenses and often lunch vouchers but I appreciate times have changed and education in particular are hard pressed.
frugalkitty · 12/05/2021 13:49
Unfortunately it's often the case with first teaching jobs, it takes time and money to travel to interview only to find that the job goes to the internal candidate or they go with someone who has more experience (so why advertise for and NQT?). It was the same in the 90s.....I went to interview once only for someone to slip that they needed a coach for the boys football team which effectively meant there was no point the female candidates being there. I know it's frustrating and disappointing but all your DD can do is chalk it up to experience and try to learn from it ready for the next one.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:02
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:02
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:02
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:02
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
Fixitup2 · 12/05/2021 14:03
Confused as to why they’d reimburse travel funds.
Unfortunately this is life. It doesn’t always go to the candidate working there but often does. I’ve been to interviews where another candidate was given a hug by the interviewer as they were close colleagues. It feels shit but it’s the way it is. It was good experience.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:05
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:05
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
skirk64 · 12/05/2021 14:05
@GreenWillow
The alternative, where the internal candidate gets the ‘tap on the shoulder’ would be infinitely worse.
Yes it's all part of showing that they were fair and objective. They probably tailored the job description to fit the RQT, and the OP was the only other person to meet the criteria.
I had this experience from the other side once - I was to be given a certain role in the company, but told they had to advertise it externally so that HR could audit the process and check it was done correctly. The job description was written specifically for my skill set, I was told what questions I would be asked in the interview and what my answers should be. Unfortunately (for her) someone saw the advert and met the criteria so had to be interviewed even though they literally couldn't win the job.
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