Baffling how northern Ireland didnt changed their abortion laws till 2019

[Footloosefancyfree]

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/what-three-families-bbc-about-20564637

Watching the story of three families and its astonishing how far behind the times Northern Ireland were in regards to abortion. The legalisation finally passed in only 2019 up until then you could be prosecuted and put into jail regardless if it the pregnancy occurred because of incest, rape or abnormalities, the legalisation occur in England in the late sixties.

It wouldn't have passed in 2019 either, if it hadn't been for the fact that the NI Assembly at Stormont was suspended. It was Westminster who pushed it through.

The reason is simple - it's called the DUP. Look them up and be amazed at their views. Not in a good way.

It something out the dark ages isnt it.

Westminster who pushed it through against the will of the people.

Some democracy, that.

Piglet89 do you not feel woman have the right to a choice.

Not unfettered choice, no.

I’ll probably be pilloried and my posts deleted for expressing that view, though.

I find it baffling how a site that’s so pro choice then pillories people for not breast feeding their kid or for sleep training them. Totally fine take away life in utero - but you’re the devil incarnate if you do anything remotely seen as “damaging” once they have life.

Ha, the DUP abuse the petition of concern to reinforce their religious dogma even when the assembly votes for anything liberal piglet they're not exactly making the assembly a shining example of democracy in the first place.

Against the will of the people? In 2015 the Irish High Court ruled that the anti-abortion laws were a violation of womens human rights and a 2020 poll showed that the majority of respondents were in favour of allowing abortion with only 16% saying that they thought it should not be allowed.

Abortion has nothing to do with the will of the people anyway, it is entirely down to the will of the individual woman carrying the pregnancy - her body, her choice.

It wasn't legal in the Republic of Ireland until 2018 , so I see the situation in the North as less strange than those in mainland UK. Ireland has very strict guidelines for when abortion after 12 weeks can be used. So it's not as liberal as the UK.

I find it baffling how a site that’s so pro choice then pillories people for not breast feeding their kid or for sleep training them.

The site doesn't do that, a minority of posters do that. They are probably the sort who are only poor-choice if it is the same choice they would make.

Believe me, as a Catholic from Northern Ireland (no longer practising) I am no fan of the DUP.

But you’re arguing on a logical fallacy: just because the DUP’s behaviour may be undemocratic, it doesn’t make Westminster’s riding roughshod over the NI electorate’s (probable) will correct.

Totally fine take away life in utero - but you’re the devil incarnate if you do anything remotely seen as “damaging” once they have life.

See, this is my argument for pro choice. Fine to be all about protecting life in utero but not caring about that life later when a woman has been raped and become pregnant or her circumstances dont allow her to consider having a child. It's so hypocritical.

@Footloosefancyfree

It something out the dark ages isnt it.

Yes. Well, nearly. More early post-mediaeval hardline patriarchy, from around 1609. Edwin Poots still lives in it. Arlene is quite the radical compared to him.

The Isle of Man (not part of the UK or EU though) only relatively recently legalised abortion.

'Shopping visits' to Liverpool were a thing. Still are, actually. Making something legal and providing an accessible service aren't always the same thing.

Whether it's the will of the majority or not, even if only one woman wants to terminate a pregnancy, for whatever reason, that choice should be available. That one woman's decision has no impact on the other voters. They are still free to not make use of abortion services.

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.

@pointythings

It wouldn't have passed in 2019 either, if it hadn't been for the fact that the NI Assembly at Stormont was suspended. It was Westminster who pushed it through.

The reason is simple - it's called the DUP. Look them up and be amazed at their views. Not in a good way.

Not quite. Both major parties, the DUP and Sinn Fein were anti abortion until the abortion referendum in ROI. SF realised at that point that they would have to support legalising abortion in order to bring NI in line with ROI as obviously they support an all island approach with regards to all legislation. It was at that point that Westminster were able to push abortion legislation through, when the DUP was weak and there was support from SF. There had also been public backlash in NI against the treatment of the family who were convicted for buying the abortion pills online. Very clever timing, an excellent political move.

I always found the lack of knowledge in England (can't speak for Wales or Scotland) about abortion rights in other parts of the UK astounding... Especially while blasting the rights in the UK or in Poland for example.

Most people just like to ignore it I think. Abortion is something that other people may need.

@FromHereToModernity

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.

You've hit on something here. The DUP are a fundamental Christian outfit and very into controlling what the populace do in NI. They want to force everyone here to live according to their Christian values and would cheerfully run NI like a dictatorship if they could get away with it (they do their best as it is!)

Why anyone would be shocked about Westminster’s blatant lack of knowledge or care about anything affecting Northern Ireland after Brexit is beyond me.

Definately fair enough. I don't have a lot of time for Sinn Fein. But it was a move that needed to happen. I also think it took the ROI far, far too long to legalise abortion. A good friend of mine had a late term abortion because her much wanted baby had an abnormality that was incompatible with life. Abortion rights are the hill I will die on.

The ignorance around NI never fails to shock me. It's part of the UK. 'Astonished' eh

It’s too complicated for them to bother to get their heads around. So they don’t bother.

Growing up I don't think the DUP were a major player in NI politics but abortion was definitely illegal. So while I will happily lay many things at the door of the DUP, I don't think this is only their fault! NI Protestants and Catholics alike were/are in some cases very against abortion. The country is as a whole more religious than I find England to be which does affect attitudes.

@pointythings

Definately fair enough. I don't have a lot of time for Sinn Fein. But it was a move that needed to happen. I also think it took the ROI far, far too long to legalise abortion. A good friend of mine had a late term abortion because her much wanted baby had an abnormality that was incompatible with life. Abortion rights are the hill I will die on.

I don't have a lot of time for SF either, it was a cynical move - they'd have happily gone on denying women abortions based on what they thought their voters wanted. It's just how it worked out. I am like you, pro choice, and am dismayed that there have been attempts to limit abortions again.

OP even though abortions are legal here it still isn't actually possible to access them in most cases believe it or not!

What @Crocodilesoup said.

Faith is a much more important and integral part of people’s lives. Catholics, for example, actually attend Mass because worship is a big part of that faith - not just because they’re desperate to get little Isabella into a decent school.

I don't think religion is such a big thing in NI any more. I'm 37 and struggle to name more than a couple of friends who actually attend any church services outside of weddings, funerals and Christmas.