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Baffling how northern Ireland didnt changed their abortion laws till 2019

56 replies

Footloosefancyfree · 11/05/2021 10:46

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/what-three-families-bbc-about-20564637

Watching the story of three families and its astonishing how far behind the times Northern Ireland were in regards to abortion. The legalisation finally passed in only 2019 up until then you could be prosecuted and put into jail regardless if it the pregnancy occurred because of incest, rape or abnormalities, the legalisation occur in England in the late sixties.

OP posts:
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megletthesecond · 11/05/2021 11:38

I had to try and explain it to my teen yesterday. She was baffled that Northern Ireland took so long. It does seem like the dark ages.

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skirk64 · 11/05/2021 11:39

NI is a very different place to the rest of the UK. I hesitate to say "backwards" but their laws are traditionally a few decades behind the rest of the UK in many areas. Homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1982 for instance, and their gun laws are less restrictive (not necessarily easy to but you can get a handgun for self protection in some cases, no way that would happen in England or Wales or Scotland).

Or maybe NI is ahead of the UK? Fashions change, attitudes change, maybe in a century people will say NI was "progressive" for resisting the march to the left.

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Mistressinthetulips · 11/05/2021 11:41

I wonder if the availability (with difficulty, obviously) of terminations across the water actually helped keep the ban in place? As it was kind of, well if you really must you can always get on a boat?

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AryaStarkWolf · 11/05/2021 11:45

@romdowa

It wasn't legal in the Republic of Ireland until 2018 , so I see the situation in the North as less strange than those in mainland UK. Ireland has very strict guidelines for when abortion after 12 weeks can be used. So it's not as liberal as the UK.

I think strict laws after 12 weeks are a good thing though. I'm very much Pro Choice and voted in favour in our referendum(ROI), I still wouldn't be a fan of later stage abortions when the baby is really starting to develop
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PuttingOnTheKitsch · 11/05/2021 11:45

I can't quote @Definately 's post, but it’s spot on.

Also noteworthy that the SF Deputy First Minister, Michelle O'Neill when interviewed afterwards said that NI abortion legislation should mirror that of ROI as opposed to the UK - a statement solely based on ideology as opposed to what's best for the women of NI.

Both sides of the religious divide opposed abortion for years, it was definitely not just the DUP.

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CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 11/05/2021 11:50

100% of people who support abortion have already been born...

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toocoldforsno · 11/05/2021 11:51

It's not even slightly baffling if you have the first clue about Northern Ireland.

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AryaStarkWolf · 11/05/2021 11:52

@CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind

100% of people who support abortion have already been born...

Well that's changed my mind Grin
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vodkaredbullgirl · 11/05/2021 11:52

Don't they only allow up to 12 weeks, then have to come over here for over 12 weeks?

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MindtheBelleek · 11/05/2021 11:53

@Piglet89

Why anyone would be shocked about Westminster’s blatant lack of knowledge or care about anything affecting Northern Ireland after Brexit is beyond me.

Indeed. And the predictable remarks about 'the dark ages' are pretty ignorant and othering. People might want to do a bit of thinking about the history of abortion legislation on both sides of the border on the island of Ireland. Hint: the answer isn't 'Because Ireland as an island is a throwback to the dark ages.'
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romdowa · 11/05/2021 11:57

I voted to repeal as well and I don't think I'd be up for a system as Liberal as the UK but I think 12 weeks is too restrictive . Especially when you factor in that women in roi have to be referred for an abortion by their gp who can refuse. There are 3 week waiting lists to see some gps in Ireland and then they refuse and you've to try and find another gp and wait another few weeks. Takes you very close to that 12 week deadline

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FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 11/05/2021 11:59

piglet I'll take Westminster riding roughshod as you put it over an unwanted pregnancy I have to travel to England for.

Westminster might as well be useful bfor something.

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UhtredRagnarson · 11/05/2021 11:59

@toocoldforsno

It's not even slightly baffling if you have the first clue about Northern Ireland.

NI is a very different place to the rest of the UK. I hesitate to say "backwards" but their laws are traditionally a few decades behind the rest of the UK in many areas. Homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1982 for instance

A whole 15 years after it was legalised in England? And when it was legalised in England it was only for those over 21. So not quite.
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Captpike · 11/05/2021 11:59

Same-sex marriage too. It was passed, people supported it, but it was vetoed by the DUP. And now poots might be in charge.

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UhtredRagnarson · 11/05/2021 12:00

Sorry, I didn’t mean to quote you in that post @toocoldforsno.

I meant to agree with your quote and then add my next part in a second post.

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BashfulClam · 11/05/2021 12:05

It is always the woman’s right to choose. To force her to go through with a pregnancy against her will is barbaric!

What if a 13 year old is raped? Are we to let her go through with the pregnancy when it can be stopped, yes the baby can be adopted but it is not always that simple. Her body will also be irrevocably changed forever through no choice of her own.

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AryaStarkWolf · 11/05/2021 12:08

@romdowa

I voted to repeal as well and I don't think I'd be up for a system as Liberal as the UK but I think 12 weeks is too restrictive . Especially when you factor in that women in roi have to be referred for an abortion by their gp who can refuse. There are 3 week waiting lists to see some gps in Ireland and then they refuse and you've to try and find another gp and wait another few weeks. Takes you very close to that 12 week deadline

Yes, I agree with you on that actually, 12 weeks could be a bit too tight
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melodypondisasuperhero · 11/05/2021 12:24

@CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind

100% of people who support abortion have already been born...

100% of people who oppose abortion have already been born. It’s almost as if 100% of people who have any opinions at all have already been born. Wonder why that is...
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2bazookas · 11/05/2021 12:39

Not so baffling if you know any Irish or British history.

BTW mainland UK has nothing to feel superior about when it comes to contraception/ abortion/ history.

My generation carried the scars of our hard -earned "liberation" and we're not dead yet.

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pointythings · 11/05/2021 12:47

I think the UK position is about right given current medical capabilities and survival rates of premature babies. The exception for disability should also stay - my friend's abortion was at 26 weeks due to delays in diagnosis. The data is clear - fewer than 2% of abortions take place after 24 weeks, and of that 2% the vast majority is for major abnormality.

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CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 11/05/2021 12:48

Fair point! I'm probably slightly biased because we were advised to abort our daughter and didn't and she wasn't nearly as disabled as they said she would be. I guess I feel sorry for kids like her who have no control or choice in what happens to them.

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CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 11/05/2021 12:48

Sorry I was trying to quote @melodypondisasuperhero in my last post

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FromHereToModernity · 11/05/2021 12:49

A 12 week restriction would be grand if all abortions sought by all woman and girls could be obtained, free of charge, within that timeframe.

But they can't. And thus it's too restrictive. And that's not the fault of women and girls.

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FromHereToModernity · 11/05/2021 12:50

In fact there are elements of the system which seem to deliberately run down the clock.

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Aroundtheworldin80moves · 11/05/2021 12:53

That is why many abortion rights people like the maxim ' as early as possible, as late as necessary'... It covers the fact that the foetus isn't as developed early on, while acknowledging there may be delays that were not in control. Plus allowing women time to think about their decision properly.

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