Begging outside shops etc, should be stopped?

[Bookingsmamas]

Shouldn’t these places have their security move these people on? It’s absolutely getting ridiculous now. I’ve seen a steady increase of these men begging for cash, they’re homeless, etc etc.

I have 0 issue with someone sitting outside somewhere asking for money. But they aren’t doing that, they’re going up to cars, people walking by. And now tapping on my bloody car. Twice since going to our local Aldi, someone has tapped?! On my car when I’ve tried to ignore them politely.

It just feels very intrusive. AIBU to think security should be stopping them or encouraging them to move along? Our local shopping centre is excellent and moving these people straight on

Aside from anything else, a car park doesn’t seem like a very safe place to beg - if they are under the influence of something they could easily lurch in front of a car. So they should be moved out of the car park for that alone IMO.

The beggers I see in my area are addicted to crack (my drug addicted BIL knows most of them).

This is why they beg.

The real less fortunate people keep to themselves and go to foodbank, they have a quiet dignity. They are not aggressive.

With evictions being banned and a new foodbank opening every month someone needs to ask, who are the real homeless and who are career beggers?

And how many of you have been forced into this existence?

The "gangs" are likely doing it to get money for whomever they owe money - including in return for a "home", they will be being threatened and physically abused into doing it, some even killed. The "people" operating such gangs will think nothing of stabbing someone who doesn't "earn enough". Our police refuse to do a thing to help these people. Not their job apparently. Yet they'll frequently put up posters on social media about human slavery and being able to help - clearly not.

Street homeless, contrary to popular belief tend to sleep during the day/very early morning 4-6am) and not at night.

Many turn to drink and drugs to escape the existence of being street homeless because it is a horrendous way to live, being abused and assaulted for what little you may have on a regular basis. Being abused in "hostels" if you're on meds that others are addicted to.

Charities are all well and good but you must meet their criteria for help first, a surprising number won't.

I've been street homeless. I've begged. I've been approached by gangs where I live offering me a "job" and "home". My GP ending my care due to covid meant I lost my benefits.

Regardless of the reason we have a lot of VERY serious problems in our society that are contributing to this.

And no, that is not a begging post. It's just simple fact of how things are now for me that is all and no I can't sell the device I use to access MN - it's literally worthless as over ten years old and so old that it won't even load ads anywhere anymore as they won't run (obviously a bonus on the ads!)

Our food bank gives three parcels only in a twelve month period (which last three days and aren't suitable for people like myself who are diabetics or on special medical diets) and employ someone from the jobcentre to encourage users into work - which is pointless of you cannot medically work but no longer have any medical care as you're unable to do it and no it's not a case of trying - far too many fall through the cracks of our benefit system.

I always say I don't have cash (true) but would you like something from the shop. Guy yesterday said he'd love a chicken sandwich. A woman a few weeks ago said she'd love a can of meat for her dog :( and one before that asked for a steak slice from Gregg's. The only person whose ever turned down my offer said they'd got plenty of food but thanks anyway.

The pp who says the idea beggars would accept a sandwich is 'laughable' obviously hasn't offered anybody one.

ps I'd want to get off my face on drink or drugs or both if I was in that position. I'd buy someone a can of something if they asked for it too (they never have).

How do you move them on? Who moves them on? What do you do when they come back an hour later? And again?

@Cocksinsocks I have actually. I’ve offered plenty of hot drinks too. But not the beggars I refer to in my posts. They do not want a hot drink or a sandwich and I don’t wish to enrage them further by offering them one when I’ve already said no to giving them cash.

I imagine it's getting quite hard for a lot of them because Covid's really brought out a cashless society. I don't have spare money to give away but at any rate, I never carry cash unless I had to use it for something specific.

I agree @Bookingsmamas

I've worked on homeless programmes for over 10 years and aggressive begging s not tolerated but any of the orgs I work with. In fact (according to my local police force) the beggars are rarely homelessness and often being worked by criminal gangs. Give to your local outreach service not to beggars is my advice - they will stop if no one gives them anything

The "gangs" are likely doing it to get money for whomever they owe money - including in return for a "home", they will be being threatened and physically abused into doing it, some even killed. The "people" operating such gangs will think nothing of stabbing someone who doesn't "earn enough". Our police refuse to do a thing to help these people. Not their job apparently. Yet they'll frequently put up posters on social media about human slavery and being able to help - clearly not. someone on a group I’m on recently trotted out this one to justify why the HMRC/banking/Microsoft/ scammers do what they do as well. Sorry, that’s not good enough. The gang masters are responsible for the situation they are in, not the people who say no and are threatened for doing so.

And the more people trot out this kind of crap the less time I have for the people they’re justifying.

DH has repeatedly offered to buy food from maccies for him or go into the Morrisons (petrol station shop) with him for him to chose a sandwhich/meal ect. No. He wants cash.

Probably because he can’t use 15 soggy Morrison’s sandwiches to pay for his bed in a shelter for a night.

He's apparently quite nasty if you tell him to go back to his 4 bedroom house!

Imagine that! He’s handed over his mortgage statements and mental health records to the gossips who have clearly verified his status as a wealthy homeowner but gets annoyed when people remind him of that. 🙄

In regular pre-Covid times there was a group of Eastern Europeans who did this every morning on High Holborn.

Are criminal gangs a problem? Probably. Are the vast majority of people begging a part of that? Absolutely not. And yet here we have it trotted out as a reason never to help anyone who needs it.

Instead of turning your nose up and using cliches to avoid havjng to do anything, how about we actually lobby the government locally and nationally to actually do something to help people avoid homelessness and poverty. How about we press for better mental health and addiction services, provide a proper service for homeless people instead of relying on ad hoc charities, recognise why people become homeless or fall in to poverty and change the system to avoid it happening?

Two of the people I know who are often seen begging on the street were kids who went to the enhanced provision unit at my school. What kind of services and support is in place for adults with learning disabilities who don’t have good family support? Absolutely fuck all in many places.

But much easier for us to judge and refuse to help, eh? Or maybe we can console ourselves that we did that big sleep out with our high end thermal waterproof gear, with all that entertainment, food and security (which, ironically the actual homeless people in my city were not allowed to join in with) and pat ourselves on the back for.

@Bookingsmamas

Last person to be told no (not someone who tapped on my car, just someone walking up to me) tutted with a ‘’thanks for nothing then’’ when I said ‘sorry, no change’. I find it really difficult

Just tell them you don't carry cash. Not a lot of people are atm.

I don't agree. Whenever I see a woman or man who is homeless I see a human being like me, who through following a marginally different path has finished up in a dark and often terrifying place. I would like everyone to be reached by local outreach teams and offered support. Your attitude appears privileged. I would counsel more humility.

Give to your local outreach service not to beggars is my advice - they will stop if no one gives them anything

And what do you suppose they will do instead?

You can’t help but wonder if these outreach services were so successful, why does begging persist? It is well known there are problems with why some won’t engage with these services and it isn’t because people are chucking them a fiver now and again.

Instead of turning your nose up and using cliches to avoid havjng to do anything, how about we actually lobby the government locally and nationally to actually do something to help people avoid homelessness and poverty. How about we press for better mental health and addiction services, provide a proper service for homeless people instead of relying on ad hoc charities, recognise why people become homeless or fall in to poverty and change the system to avoid it happening?

I agree with all of the above. Homelessness is absolutely a problem which needs addressing and which successive governments have neglected. It's appalling that a significant portion of homeless people are in work, it's a national disgrace.

None of that makes harrassment by aggressive beggars acceptable though.

Most people begging on the streets are not homeless - they are just begging.
True homeless people often hide themselves away.
I have worked with true homeless and they are not the people I see begging on the streets. Often notice they are out either when people are shopping or on a Friday or Saturday night when the pubs and clubs are open. Always by cash machine - they all have their designated patches - often 'rented' out.
I have also done welfare work in the pubs and clubs areas on a Friday and Saturday night and we classify them as 'presenting as homeless'.
Advice is never give them money or food and drink - give your money to the support agencies that are there to truly help them.

You can’t help but wonder if these outreach services were so successful, why does begging persist? oh, perhaps because they don’t engage with scammers and drug addicts?

The naivety of people never ceases to astound me.

You can’t help but wonder if these outreach services were so successful, why does begging persist?

Again, don't conflate homelessness with begging. The two do overlap of course, but not all homeless people beg and not all beggars are homeless.

I agree with you 100%. I was outside my local Waitrose and was disappointed to see that security hadn't moved the individual begging on. However, I note that you specify men. On this occasion, it was a woman begging.

This thread has made me question my faith in my fellow man.
Some of you should be ashamed.

To be fair I think there is a balance to be had here. I never give money - I will give food or drinks (not alcohol) or something needed, but not cash. People also need to be aware that whilst there is definitely a lot wrong with the way we support and help the poor and homeless in the UK, there is much evidence to show that there is now a serious issue with trafficking and organised crime around "beggers", and by giving money you may in fact be donating to some activities that you seriously don't want to support. And I do not mean an illicit drinker. I mean gangs of trafficked people who have "gangmasters" to whom they must turn over all their "earnings" at the end of the day, and can be punished if they haven't earned enough. It isn't just the car washes that you need to look out for.

There's a very active homeless charity in my area and they post on social media and ask people to let them know if they see anyone homeless or begging, so they can help them. It isn't as much of a problem in this area as it is elsewhere. They regularly post that they are aware of a person in X or Y area, have offered help but it hasn't been taken up (so they aren't repeatedly told about the same person).

I know no one has to take up offers of help, but you have to wonder why someone prefers sitting outside shops and making people either feel guilty or almost threatened into giving money, rather than the individual taking up offers of help (it isn't just immediate help - they link with other groups to get people long term help). Perhaps they do actually have a home or perhaps they make more money this way?

@Blossomtoes

Jesus Christ, listen to yourself will you? You're everything that is wrong with society. The people you are talking about are human beings, just like you.

This. Get angry about an affluent society that tolerates homelessness and people so poor they have to beg. Not the poor buggers who have no choice. Better yet, give them some money or something to eat.

Your naivety is sweet. I do not wish to fund someone's drug addiction, thank you very much!!