Begging outside shops etc, should be stopped?

[Bookingsmamas]

Shouldn’t these places have their security move these people on? It’s absolutely getting ridiculous now. I’ve seen a steady increase of these men begging for cash, they’re homeless, etc etc.

I have 0 issue with someone sitting outside somewhere asking for money. But they aren’t doing that, they’re going up to cars, people walking by. And now tapping on my bloody car. Twice since going to our local Aldi, someone has tapped?! On my car when I’ve tried to ignore them politely.

It just feels very intrusive. AIBU to think security should be stopping them or encouraging them to move along? Our local shopping centre is excellent and moving these people straight on

Despite the heavy-handed virtual signalling in this thread, the majority agrees with OP.

I don’t know about that. There are lots of things mixed up in this thread.
I don’t think giving money directly to beggars is ever a good idea based on what charities say.
It’s not unreasonable for people to feel threatened when approached by a stranger asking for money.
It’s not unreasonable for supermarkets to need to ensure their customers don’t feel threatened in the car park. I would stop using a supermarket where I didn’t feel safe in the car park.

The lack of compassion for people who find themselves in that position from the op and others is really horrible to read.

Sorry *this viewpoint that should say

I'm not sure if they should be moved on if they're not doing anything illegal, but I notice that it's men who always approach you with a tale about needing bus money or knock on your car window. Do they mainly target women?

@ Soontobe60 except it’s the other way around and 1 in 10 is probably genuine, and the rest are scammers.

Added to which, why should people feel obliged to pay for the next hit which might kill someone and keep some drug dealer in cash?

There are genuine homeless shelters and charities to help out the homeless. No-one should feel obliged to give money to someone in case they’re attacked or told to fuck off if they don’t.

[quote ElphabaTWitch]@Littlefluffyclouds13

I’d feel nervous if someone was knocking on
My window looking for cash. And if they have a shit attitude if you say no then those people stop you wanting to give money to anyone begging.
Who I chose to give money to is up to me, and if I chose not to give money on the street that’s my choice. Doesn’t mean I am a problem to society for not supporting these people surely?
That’s a bit of an over reaction I think 🤔[/quote]
If you're looking for a definition of an over reaction, maybe reread op's post?
Poor little lamb eh

@Bookingsmamas

Do you do anything to help those less fortunate than yourself?

Yes - I give to charity and provide shops for my local food bank. But I suspect you’ll tell me that’s not good enough

PurpleDaisies Right, so I should just put up with it then should I?

It's a decent effort but I'm amazed you can't stretch your empathy further op?

Isn’t begging a criminal offense in the UK?

Well it's possible to believe that our capitalist society does not provide adequately for people who are poor

AND

That you should do what Shelter says and not give money directly to individuals

It's awful and totally understandable why people are off their tits on drink and drugs all the time given the gap between rich and poor and how appalling drug and alcohol services are (and mental health services)

@ToffeePennie

In a town local to me there was a gentleman begging daily with a big placard about how he is an ex veteran, sold his medals for money, he and his whippet both starve (although the whippet always looked in really good shape to me). He started off harmlessly begging for change, then started harassing people as they took money out of the ATM, eventually moving his “sleeping spot” to literally in front of the only ATM for miles, so you have to bend over him to do anything. He was really off putting and it got to the point where the police were involved. I was in town one day and saw him have a massive altercation with the police about it, being told to move on etc. He was then told to register with X homeless charity local to the town and taken there by the officers. I witnessed as he was half dragged there against his will, the woman answered and I heard her say “he’s not homeless, just a liar.” I didn’t see what happened after as my business associate arrived. Later it transpired he had a job and a perfectly nice house, but realised he could make more money from begging. The guy had a decent Audi on the drive of his fairly large sized house, all paid for totally by begging. Even worse, he was seen in another town buying a brand new Mercedes and paying IN CASH! The medals he had sold? Faked. The service he had provided? Lies. Eventually he was convicted of fraud. I am so so wary of the homeless now after that.

So one bad egg has totally changed your attitude towards the homeless? Are you always so easily swayed?

@ToffeePennie
Ah the local newspaper, that well known publisher of truthful and accurate news stories

There is a difference between homeless people, rough sleepers, and beggars and it's worth remembering that.

You won't notice the vast majority of homeless people because they don't sleep on the streets - they sleep on friends sofas or on public transport or hang out in all night cafes / launderettes (pre-covid). They're often employed too, which is fucking criminal.

Rough sleepers don't always beg.

Beggars are not always homeless.

Let's not conflate the three.

Aggressive begging is absolutely an anti-social issue which needs addressing. There's an Irish chap who hangs around the route I walk home from work on. He's often obviously under the influence of something. Now I'm in the office more regularly he's started recognising me. He now follows me down the street every evening asking for money (or my number). The streets are quiet still and it's very intimidating. I don't carry any cash on me ever so I really don't have anything to give. I changed my route but he found me again so I don't really know what to do, I just have to put up with it.

I also got the tube the other day for the first time in a while. There was an older lady on there, again clearly under the influence, harrassing passengers for money. She was really getting in people's faces (no mask of course) and grabbing their possessions to get their attention - unsurprisingly most people were reluctant to engage with a woman shouting and swearing in a confined space with no escape.

Last Friday I was accosted by a different man near my house. I smiled but didn't engage further (I was wearing a mask so of course he couldn't see me smiling, it was just an instinctive reaction on my part) and he followed me across the bridge shouting about how I was a cunt and I deserved to be taken out. That was bloody scary. No-one else intervened.

Aggressive begging is harrassment pure and simple.

@Littlefluffyclouds13 as a general no. But the impersonation of a solider was what swung it for me. As a family with many many military or ex service members I found it to be grotesque and has coloured my view entirely. Possibly wrongly but I can’t help that.

Why have a lot of posters automatically assumed beggar= homeless person? The beggars I encounter in my locality are not homeless, they are a group of crack addicts. They ARE intimidating and I’m certainly not lily livered. I know full well why they’re trying to intimidate me as I go into the shop, and it’s because they want money for a hit. And it’s totally my prerogative not to enable that, which I can do without hating poor people and still be concerned by this massive social problem.

Given the encouragement of and greater use of card payments during the pandemic, I wonder if beggars are getting less money simply because people don't have cash on them, or have a good answer of 'I don't carry cash anymore' so as not to give?

@Lockheart thank you for reminding people about not conflating beggars with those who are homeless or rough sleepers.

give money to those that are polite

Ahhh - the deserving poor.

They get picked up and dropped off in vans and often have to hand over the takings for a small wage.

Yay, first page in and we have this one trotted out.

I don't give money to men or women,who ask for money,and sit on the ground, and show signs of drug taking,and have a few cans of lager lined up besides them. I don't have any sympathy for them at all. Giver them money,and they will be off to buy some more rubbish stuff.

Despite their stupor they know someone will feel sorry for them in crowded areas.

I once saw a group of young lads and girls in a supermarket car park, they all seemed to be working together, but in different areas of the large car park,all stopping and pestering shoppers for money,, then they would group up and seemed to be chatting, about what money they had all got. I dare say it was for drugs.

The reason that the homeless often want cash is because many shelters require payment and if it's cold and/or wet people are desperate to get into the warm. Councils are extremely good at spending on adverts saying 'don't give money' but not as good at providing the shelter people need.

So, someone tutted at you is worse than them being homeless???
You realise that you being uncomfortable with someone else's poverty and need so up close and personal to you is your issue to deal with, not their. Just check saying no, politely and keep walking. They are allowed to be pissed off. Unless they are aggressive (and tapping a car window is not aggressive) then imo this is no the inequity in the society we live in.

@MintyMabel

give money to those that are polite

Ahhh - the deserving poor.

They get picked up and dropped off in vans and often have to hand over the takings for a small wage.

Yay, first page in and we have this one trotted out.

In regular pre-Covid times there was a group of Eastern Europeans who did this every morning on High Holborn. When I went to the office early I'd see them arrive in one big group and string out to their regular patches. The gang master would go and hang out and smoke on the other side of the street keeping an eye out for police.

I called the police several times because it was obvious slavery and trafficking, but the gangmasters keep lookouts and they scatter at the first sign of police.

I expect they find it more difficult to be homeless and begging for money

And therein lies the problem - because a lot of them are not homeless.

We have a chap who turns up periodically in our town. He's been around since at least 2008. He is categorically not homeless. We know that for certain. But some of the virtue-signalling do-gooders insist on giving him cash, so he keeps coming back to intimidate people. He's apparently quite nasty if you tell him to go back to his 4 bedroom house!

If you want to give money, give to homeless charities. Do not give it to people on the street - you have no idea whether they are genuine in most cases.

Yay, first page in and we have this one trotted out

I hate to disabuse you but it is true. At least in the case of Mr Scammer in our town.

Interesting that the virtue signallers on this thread are accusing those who are being harassed and sworn at of lacking in compassion, when if you were harassed in a pub the response would be different.

There is no way on this earth I will give money to a crack addict. You might as well be doing business with drug dealers then, is that what you want? And what when the hit you paid for kills someone? Isn’t that your responsibility? And that’s before we get to the fact that these people are often violent and intimidating.

And then there are the criminal gangs who are widespread.

A lot of them are drug addicts. A lot of them are also not homeless. They see it as a job and a way to raise funds for their next fix. I’ve no objection to giving anyone food and a hot drink which is what I tend to do. I never give them cash.

Id never come across car park beggars until last week when I was parked in a suburban retail park waiting for a friend. I was approached by 2 separate men in the space of 10 minutes .Both asking for cash and not accepting a negative answer without a comment back.
I was uneasy as Im used to the local shop doorway sitters who arrive on the bus from town ,sit on a sleeping bag and then go back to town on the bus where they count their daily taking. Our local homeless charity ,which does keep a tally on the street sleepers , warns the locals to not give them any money as they are not homeless but they seem to do well out of it nevertheless.
This aggresive begging is another level and I would not be happy visiting the retail park again - specially if I had to stay in the car for a time.