Page 5 | Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

flashbac · 2021-05-10T10:00:41+00:00

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote. By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap. [[https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?]]

SunflowersAndLavender · 10/05/2021 17:26

I wonder if the sweeping emergency powers they implemented, almost unopposed, during COVID gave them a new vigour for thinking a universal method of surveillance might be a good idea. I think ‘voting fraud’ is as much of a red herring as ‘terrorism’ was back in 2002.

What 'surveillance' would an ID card give though? We are all already surveilled every time we walk down the high street or draw money from the cash point, use the internet from our homes or use our mobile phones.

If by 'surveillance' you mean monitoring how people access the benefits system, social housing, the NHS, undertaking paid work, their immigration status, their criminal history and their eligibility to vote, then bring it on, I say.

MrsJackSpratt · 10/05/2021 17:27

Voting ID Card? Shall we take a sweepstake on which mate of Boris' gets the multi million pound contract for those?

AlanThePig · 10/05/2021 17:27

I had a nightmare after I lost my Mum with the probate solicitors. My driving licence was paper and my passport expired. The only time I've ever struggled really.
In the end they accepted my expired passport and around a dozen other things from Birth and Marriage Certificates to all our bills but I really thought I was going to have to apply for a new driving licence.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 10/05/2021 17:28

@sirfredfredgeorge

We've already gone SO far down the road of Big Brother knowing our every move that why we wouldn't just give in to them and make everyone's lives easier

Because ID cards extend the "big brother" to any doorman, company or similar to use the ID cards and demand proof of identity, so even if you are completely happy with "big brother", the opportunity given to other individuals to abuse and harass individuals is gained too.

On a positive note it could help with a fraud. I mean like how can someone just apply for a loan with someone else's details is beyond me, but it's very much possible with no id. Happened to my DH. We needed the id card where I grew up. Without that you get nothing. And I think that's actually good thing.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 10/05/2021 17:29

@MrsJackSpratt

Voting ID Card? Shall we take a sweepstake on which mate of Boris' gets the multi million pound contract for those?

Whoever has an hp printer at home😂

SunflowersAndLavender · 10/05/2021 17:30

Because ID cards extend the "big brother" to any doorman, company or similar to use the ID cards and demand proof of identity, so even if you are completely happy with "big brother", the opportunity given to other individuals to abuse and harass individuals is gained too.

Don't agree with this. Doormen and security guards are not the police. They won't have any more right to demand to see your ID than they currently do to ask to inspect your driver's licence to make sure it matches your bank card.

SunflowersAndLavender · 10/05/2021 17:39

Examination fraud is another one. Some people pay others to sit exams for them.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 10/05/2021 17:41

If its done by way of a free "voters ID" card then yes fine. Whatever.

But if it means you need a passport/driving licence to vote then no fucking way. That just means some people are just "to poor to vote". But then those of us in that demographic already know what the government and large portions of the public think of us so why not just remind us that we don't matter.

Surely most people over the age of 18 have to have some form of ID to get jobs/ prove they are eligible to work in the UK
Yes. My birth certificate and NI number.

MissAmandaLa1kes · 10/05/2021 17:42

The National ID card was proposed and almost pushed in by the Labour government. It was the running dog in the manger fascist capitalists who stopped this.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 10/05/2021 17:43

NI number

My NI card clearly states it's not an ID. You cannot use NI to prove who you are or your right to work

DHdweller · 10/05/2021 17:45

I think it’s odd that we don’t need I’d to vote. I’m all for it

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 10/05/2021 17:45

@SchrodingersImmigrant

NI number

My NI card clearly states it's not an ID. You cannot use NI to prove who you are or your right to work

You're probably right. I can't remember what I showed last time I applied for a job and DBS check, other than birth certificate. It can't have been a NI card by any rate as I lost mine about 15 years ago, but seem to remember giving my NI number. Maybe not.

But it always comes up on these threads that you have to have photo ID to apply for work. You most definitely do not.

TakeMeToYourLiar · 10/05/2021 17:47

This would disenfranchise my gran. She has never been abroad, so no passport. Similarly doesn't drive so no licence. She lives in a council funded care home so doesn't get full state pension, only pocket money she wouldn't be able to afford to buy id just to vote

looptheloopinahulahoop · 10/05/2021 17:47

@sirfredfredgeorge

We've already gone SO far down the road of Big Brother knowing our every move that why we wouldn't just give in to them and make everyone's lives easier

Because ID cards extend the "big brother" to any doorman, company or similar to use the ID cards and demand proof of identity, so even if you are completely happy with "big brother", the opportunity given to other individuals to abuse and harass individuals is gained too.

But they already do demand to see ID. Does it matter whether they ask to see an ID card or your photocard driving licence? Or a proof of age card?

And in the case of banks, having to delve through the ever decreasing number of paper bank statements or bills. I have a paper council tax bill (which is only valid for ID for three months) and that's it. I'd love an ID card that could be used as an alternative.

SunflowersAndLavender · 10/05/2021 17:48

I think almost every other highly developed nation uses ID cards. I can't think offhand of any that don't except us. It's madness.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 10/05/2021 17:49

But it always comes up on these threads that you have to have photo ID to apply for work. You most definitely do not

how do you prove right to work in the UK - by a birth certificate? I've always used my passport so I don't know any different.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 10/05/2021 17:51

@SunflowersAndLavender

I think almost every other highly developed nation uses ID cards. I can't think offhand of any that don't except us. It's madness.

I agree.

Mind you, it's about time we followed Estonia and had electronic voting.

DogInATent · 10/05/2021 17:52

Only in the UK would there be queues to buy the latest iPhone, and the same people complaining about the prospect of being tracked by an ID card.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 10/05/2021 17:53

@looptheloopinahulahoop

But it always comes up on these threads that you have to have photo ID to apply for work. You most definitely do not

how do you prove right to work in the UK - by a birth certificate? I've always used my passport so I don't know any different.

Apparently borth certificate is acceptable. Even though it's actually incredibly easy thing to fake unlike most IDs. I had this issue when hiring. With the fines if someone is found to employ someone illegally, I am surprised people are so meh about it.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 10/05/2021 17:54

@looptheloopinahulahoop

But it always comes up on these threads that you have to have photo ID to apply for work. You most definitely do not

how do you prove right to work in the UK - by a birth certificate? I've always used my passport so I don't know any different.

Well it proves I was born in England. Not sure what more of a right there can be than that.

DogInATent · 10/05/2021 17:55

@looptheloopinahulahoop

But it always comes up on these threads that you have to have photo ID to apply for work. You most definitely do not

how do you prove right to work in the UK - by a birth certificate? I've always used my passport so I don't know any different.

If you're born in the UK, it's either a passport or birth certificate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/right-to-work-checklist

DogInATent · 10/05/2021 17:58

Well it proves I was born in England. Not sure what more of a right there can be than that.
But how do I know it's yours?

For that matter, how do you know that's your birth certificate? What if you're not who you think you are, how would you even know. Are you sure you're not an imposter?

Morgoth · 10/05/2021 17:59

I think everyone should be issued with a free official ID card like they do in other countries. You can use it for absolutely everything you apply for or vote for so no need to mess around with applying for costly passports and driving licences just for proof of ID (of course you need those for travel and driving still).

It would solve so many problems and make everyone happy. Everyone would always have an official form of free ID with them that is accepted everywhere. As long as it’s free so nobody is restricted by their income, I can’t see how it’s an uncontroversial idea.

Topseyt · 10/05/2021 18:00

@skirk64

Sounds like a good idea, it's not much to ask for people to prove their identity when casting their vote. As long as plenty of notice is given so that people can apply for a passport if they don't already have one.

Don't be ridiculous. There is no legal obligation to have a passport, especially if you don't travel abroad. They also cost around £90 these days, I believe. Hardly cheap and plenty of people would struggle to afford that.

Not everyone drives either, and there is no legal obligation to have a driving licence.

Plenty of people perfectly legally have neither document.

This cannot be allowed to happen unless we introduce compulsory ID cards in this country, which I happen to think would be a good idea. I also think that they should be free of charge too.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 10/05/2021 18:05

@DogInATent

Well it proves I was born in England. Not sure what more of a right there can be than that. But how do I know it's yours?

For that matter, how do you know that's your birth certificate? What if you're not who you think you are, how would you even know. Are you sure you're not an imposter?

Well you don't. And I don't. I could be an imposter

But to get a passport they would accept my birth certificate as ID. And a signed photo saying I am who I say I am. Which, if I'm not and I don't know then whoever signs it also doesn't know.
And if I'm lying and it's a false birth certificate then I would probably also know how to get a fake signed photo.

Short of microchipping newborns I'm not sure they'll be a system that isn't open to fraud.

And if they bring in compulsory photo ID for things like voting, or getting a job then they'll have to make it free or very cheap. Or unemployed people won't be able to afford to apply!