Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

[flashbac]

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote.

By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?

Yes it will.because I'd you don't have your ID on you, you are unable to vote

If I don’t have my bank card on me I can’t access or withdraw money (or open a bank account).
If I don’t have my library card I can’t borrow a book.
If I don’t have ID I can’t buy a season ticket & can’t board a train.
If I don’t have ID in a pub/ supermarket I can’t buy alcohol or cigarettes (well I can but my DD can’t - 25 rule)
If I don’t have ID I can’t buy a pet or register a birth... or get married.
If I don’t have ID I can’t get a job... or claim benefits.

The list goes on.

But, for some people it’s ok to vote in a government election without ID. Ok.

You mean people in the UK actually don't have a photo ID other than their driver's license or passport ? That's ridiculous. Every other country I've ever lived in has some sort of national ID card. And it's generally both mandatory and free. I imagine that people voting by post include a copy of their ID so their right to vote can be verified before tossing the sealed vote inside the urn.

Really weird. How are you supposed to verify anyone's identity if there's no photo on your document ?

@Marty13

You mean people in the UK actually don't have a photo ID other than their driver's license or passport ? That's ridiculous. Every other country I've ever lived in has some sort of national ID card. And it's generally both mandatory and free. I imagine that people voting by post include a copy of their ID so their right to vote can be verified before tossing the sealed vote inside the urn.

Really weird. How are you supposed to verify anyone's identity if there's no photo on your document ?

Correct. It’s unbelievable isn’t it?!

There is currently absolutely no way of verifying that the person who turns up to vote is the person they say they are.

I'm astonished. I helped man the voting station for my countries latest elections and will do it again soon. People absolutely must present a valid national ID (which has a photo) to vote (we always have a couple of idiots showing up with no ID or with foreign ID despite knowing the rules perfectly well... But 99.99% of people show up with the correct documentation). So maybe a reform there is a good idea (though introducing it weeks or even months before an important election is a bit dumb too).

Yes, not ID’s here and some do not want them. Personally, I have nothing to hide so if they issue some sort of ID for free I would not have a problem. They should be required for the NHS too.

If the electoral system is so fucked it needs photo ID cards, I don't think we can trust the last result it delivered in 2019.

Weirdly no one appears to have picked up on that.

The majority of young people have photo ID cards to prove their age when they want to be served in pubs and buy booze in the supermarket.

Because they quite like drinking in pubs they get quite good at remembering to take their ID with them when they decide to go to the pub. And they accept that if they don't have it they won't be served. As most polling stations are very local to where people live, if you forget your ID it shouldn't be a huge deal to go home and get it.

Unless of course, you are so disorganised and spontaneous that you only decide who to vote for at 21.45 hrs and turn up at 21.55hrs without your card and have no time to go home again. But frankly, that's just tough.

And virtually unbelievable.

I believe barring (certain) people from voting is the intention.

Which people? Why don't you just say it?

Do you think that the current government really needs to bar anyone in particular right now? Do the recent results look to you like there is a real threat of a credible opposition snatching power away from them any time soon?

Well, because I can see you’re asking repeatedly for other people to answer the question. It kind of implies it’s going somewhere. Like you might have a further point to make. What are you doing then, a survey?

Yes, I suppose I was going somewhere with it.

I was trying ascertain whether people ONLY have an objection to Voter ID cards on the grounds of possible cost, or that it may result in voter suppression for people who don't have a card, or forget to take it, lose it or whatever.

Or whether, even with an inked finger or stamped hand, they STILL have an issue with implementing any sort of system to prevent voter fraud, no matter how cheap, low tech, bulletproof and accessible and inclusive for all.

The majority of young people have photo ID cards to prove their age when they want to be served in pubs and buy booze in the supermarket

I wonder if there are any minorities who don't drink alcohol, and if they therefore don't have such a need. I wonder if those groups are more likely to be tory voters....

Below is a quote from a document in the House of Commons library. The last sentence is very important.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9187/

"Since 2014 the Electoral Commission has recommended that photo ID should be required in the rest of the UK. In December 2015 the Commission published a report on options for delivering and costing a voter ID scheme. The scheme was modelled on the existing scheme operating in Northern Ireland.

The Commission estimated that the number of people who would have one of the forms of photo ID it was recommending was 92.5% of the electorate. In an electorate of approximately 46 million this would leave almost 3.5 million voters without suitable ID. The Commission estimated that limiting the acceptable form of ID to passports and photographic driving licences could potentially see almost a quarter of the electorate without acceptable photo ID."

The Electoral Commission's reports on trials of vote ID schemes are here
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/voter-identification-pilots

Fine by me.

Also it's time postal votes were tightened up.
The fact that there are so few prosecutions doesn't necessarily indicate nothing's wrong, more likely a lack of will to follow it up if it's an individual case.

Anyone posted this yet?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/576024

I wonder if there are any minorities who don't drink alcohol, and if they therefore don't have such a need. I wonder if those groups are more likely to be tory voters....

So you mean Muslims, basically? How many Muslims over 18 in the UK who are eligible to vote do you suppose don't have a passport?

You currently need a name & address to apply to be on the electoral register.

Does this mean homeless people are excluded from voting?
I know people in insecure accommodation and even renters are a lot less likely to vote than homeowners but actually needing an address would bar some people. I would argue that street homeless need their voices magnified not silenced. I know this would only be a small percentage of people (although insecure accommodation and renters are not a small group) but there must be some way for homeless people to vote?

Just googled and you can vote if you're homeless, even street homeless. Good!

They need to do something, I know a candidate who collected cards from people not planning to vote and arranged others to go! Found out and barred

How many Muslims over 18 in the UK who are eligible to vote do you suppose don't have a passport?

What's this got to do with my question, you stated that everyone between the ages of 18 to 25 have ID because they all need to buy alcohol, now you turn it around to needing a passport, there are lots of groups who don't drink, the data below suggested 29% in 2015, and of course non-drinking is more common in minorities - yes your muslims, but also other groups.

blogs.biomedcentral.com/bmcseriesblog/2018/10/10/increase-non-drinking-widespread-among-young-people/

If you're going to assert that "all of them" need ID to drink (despite only around 2/3rds drinking) then perhaps you need to reassess your view that "all of them" will have passports.

Does this mean homeless people are excluded from voting?*

No. If they want to vote they can get an address from homeless organisations. Same if they want to open a bank account.
There was a big push for this years ago.

I used to volunteer in a soup kitchen for street homeless. Next times theres an election I'm going to make it my mission to try to get them as many as I can to vote. A lot are very mistrustful of authority though and might not want their names on some sort of register. I hope they've all had out reach to get covid vaccination and theres some system in place to get them vaccinated even if they aren't GP registered. Oh, and with regard covid, I couldn't care less if they were illegal immigrants or even criminals, they need a chance to be vaccinated and the right wing frothers (who I'm sure are all demanding voter ID) can fuck off if they don't like it.

The idea of having ID to vote when we don’t have free ID cards is ridiculous. Especially within the context of the fact that fraud is just minuscule.

I would be fine with it, if it were easy and free to have ID cards.

But that’s not the proposal.

Furthermore, I would be happier if the government were committed to tackling the much more prevalent, but below the radar problem, of fraud carried out by politician campaigns in elections. But they aren’t.

So the whole thing smacks of a cynical exercise. The government can “defend@ accusations of doing nothing about electoral fraud with this ID proposal when voter fraud is not the problem here.

It’s a classic distraction.

I wonder if it's just a way to introduce ID cards for the population? I bet they'll be used to access the NHS as well.

@Marty13

I'm astonished. I helped man the voting station for my countries latest elections and will do it again soon. People absolutely must present a valid national ID (which has a photo) to vote (we always have a couple of idiots showing up with no ID or with foreign ID despite knowing the rules perfectly well... But 99.99% of people show up with the correct documentation). So maybe a reform there is a good idea (though introducing it weeks or even months before an important election is a bit dumb too).

So is there no electoral fraud at all...zero?

My elderly uncle gave up driving over 10 years ago, and hasnt been abroad for years (probably not likely to either) . He could easily afford a passport but would seem pretty pointless if he wasnt planning on going on holiday. I think hed be cleverly upset not to be able to vote!