Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

[flashbac]

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote.

By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?

@00100001

Why wouldn't they help reduce voter fraud?

Do you mean you think some people might produce fakes? Shall we not use passports or driving license then, because some might be fake/stolen?

Regardless of voter fraud and voting, ID cards would be very convenient for lots of everyday situations where ID is needed - particularly helpful to those on low incomes who don't drive.

I mean non drivers on low incomes.

If there is any evidence at all that voter ID is more likely to suppress the vote that goes to any one particular party then this idea needs to be binned immediately.

Voter fraud is incredibly low, so much so it barely exists.

The real problem with elections is actually foreign influence.

If voter fraud really is a problem, then are the government suggesting that the results of the most recent elections should be called into question 🤨 or that it was a close run thing?

No, they’re not. This is about squeezing those who don’t naturally vote Conservative.

They’ve also done the same with boundary changes.

If they believe in democracy, then they’d make it easier to vote and have a better system I.e proportional representation.

@Tealightsandd

It's not hard to remember a card. No different to forgetting your wallet when you're in the shops.

ID cards are useful anyway. When I was younger I had to renew my passport despite not travelling abroad. I don't drive and needed photo ID for various things. It wasn't cheap for me at the time. I was on a low income. A national ID card (very cheap or free) would've been so helpful.

Depends how much younger I suppose, but CitizenCards for £15 have been around over 20 years.

I think if you're too useless to sort out a passport you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote

What about if you can’t afford a foreign holiday and can’t afford a passport? Including any costs to get someone to verify your identity?

So only those with enough money can vote, in your eyes?

Where to begin 🤔

[quote Tealightsandd]@00100001

Why wouldn't they help reduce voter fraud?

Do you mean you think some people might produce fakes? Shall we not use passports or driving license then, because some might be fake/stolen?

Regardless of voter fraud and voting, ID cards would be very convenient for lots of everyday situations where ID is needed - particularly helpful to those on low incomes who don't drive.[/quote]
What every day situations do you need ID for?

The issue of ID cards for "every day" use is different to needing them to vote.

I am actually all for an alternative form of ID for those that can't get a driving license and/or don't want a passport etc.

However, requiring ID to vote will result in some people being denied their right to vote.

Plus, voter fraud is SO low, the impact of introducing ID at polling stations will be negligible.so an absolute waste of time. Because it will drop from nearly nonexistent to almost nonexistent. It will just result in fewer people casting their vote.

People will/can use fake passports/driving licenses/ID cards to vote if they wanted to.
Because it is as simple as producing a fake one and relying on the poll clerk to identify it as fake in the first place...how are they going to do that? It's not as if they handle these documents daily or have any kind of machines to check. And the voters list only has a name and an address. No other information.
So you could produce a fake ID for your neighbour, with your photo on and a made up DOB (for example). Walk into polling station, produce your fake ID and steal their vote.

Placing a barrier to voting without a very good reason - e.g. actual evidence of widespread fraud which simply does not exist - is a terrible idea.

Unless, of course, you are a tory government or voter who would be perfectly happy to exclude the kind of demographics schemes like this deter most strongly. In that case, i'm sure you'd fucking love this idea.

@pheebumbalatti

I think if you're too useless to sort out a passport you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I think if you are stupid enough to make statements like this you definately shouldn't be allowed to vote.

A few random facts:

1. It is estimated that 92.5% of the electorate already have suitable ID.

2. There was no evidence of reduced turnout when the ID requirement was introduced in N. Ireland (although N.I. usually has lower turnout than the rest of UK anyway)

3. Regarding an ID requirement blocking people from voting, what is the current excuse? In the 2019 General Election, there were 287 constituencies in which turnout was less than two-thirds of the electorate with Hull East being the lowest at 49.3%.

4. The proposals stem originally from the Tower Hamlets Mayoral Election of 2014 where voter fraud (both in person and postal) was massive, and along with other rule breaking resulted in the whole election being declared void.

@pheebumbalatti - I'm disabled. I can't work, or drive, as a result of that. Obviously I can't afford foreign holidays. Do you include people like me in your charming judgment? Maybe we should all be thrown into an asylum like they did in the Olden Days? Not all organisations will necessarily accept all of the photo ID cards currently available. If this were to be compulsory, there needs to be a single, national, & cheap, (preferably free) option for those who don't drive or travel abroad.

In Northern Ireland we have always had to have photo ID to vote and personally I don’t think twice about it. Maybe it does put some people off eg if they have gone to work and planned to vote on way home but forgot ID .. not sure

A positive though is that the free Electoral ID cards that are issued to those who don’t want a passport etc can be used as ID for other things eg as photo ID on domestic UK flights and ferries. When you think about it not having a passport or Driving licence restricts travel within the UKs own borders via these modes of transport ( pretty restrictive therefore when you live on this side of the Irish Sea) . You don’t need a passport to travel within the UK legally but you do in fact need ID to get on a plane.

so having the free cards opens domestic travel up to more people eg flying from Glasgow to London

Hmm. So a non-existent problem of voter fraud is to be dealt with, in draconian style, by a man who fronted a campaign that was literally convicted of election fraud.

And the meedja all stands by and nods it through...

I think if you're too useless to sort out a passport you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote

If im not good enough to vote then im not good enough for the Covid vaccine either.

Im sick of being told i must do stuff for the greater good and how its all about community when it comes to fucking Covid and anything Covid related but then to be marginalised when it comes to everything else Fuck that. If im not good enough for one then im not good enough for the other!!!

@AnExcellentWalker DH is talking about doing a postal vote for next time and onwards as despite the polling station being at the school literally opposite our flat which can be seen from our bedroom window it was a real struggle for him to manoevre in there on his mobility scooter , the room they used last week was tiny. Had there been any more voters in there at the time he went he would have had to turn around and come home.

Good, hope it comes in.

I think people who support this are missing the point. We already have a problem with voter apathy here. Large numbers of our electorate feel disenfranchised. Increasing the admin around voting, making it harder and more expensive for both voter and the taxpayer, increasing queues at polling stations etc, how is this going to increase participation?
But then, maybe this is just what the Tories want.

In any case, if voter ID is so important that's its needed now, as opposed to, you know, more important things like reform of social care as promised by Boris Johnson, isn't this implying that the Brexit vote and the 80 seat majority for the Tories is built on dodgy elections?

@pheebumbalatti

I think if you're too useless to sort out a passport you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote.

What a lovely statement.

@jcyclops

A few random facts:

1. It is estimated that 92.5% of the electorate already have suitable ID.

2. There was no evidence of reduced turnout when the ID requirement was introduced in N. Ireland (although N.I. usually has lower turnout than the rest of UK anyway)

3. Regarding an ID requirement blocking people from voting, what is the current excuse? In the 2019 General Election, there were 287 constituencies in which turnout was less than two-thirds of the electorate with Hull East being the lowest at 49.3%.

4. The proposals stem originally from the Tower Hamlets Mayoral Election of 2014 where voter fraud (both in person and postal) was massive, and along with other rule breaking resulted in the whole election being declared void.

It is your right to not vote.

But to be denied your vote is terribly wrong.

Increasing the admin around voting, making it harder and more expensive for both voter and the taxpayer, increasing queues at polling stations etc, how is this going to increase participation?

As I said upthread. Anyone can vote on anyone else’s behalf at the moment. All you need to know is a name and address.
I could vote for my friend, sister, cousin, colleague and nobody would be any the wiser.
I would prefer accurate voting rather than the slack system we have now.

But the system isn't slack, voting fraud is minimal. Using ID won't prevent voter fraud. It will reduce participation. It will deny some people their right to vote.

Its an absolute waste of time and money.

In any case, if voter ID is so important that's its needed now, as opposed to, you know, more important things like reform of social care as promised by Boris Johnson, isn't this implying that the Brexit vote and the 80 seat majority for the Tories is built on dodgy elections?

I’m sure the government can cope with two things at once. Voter ID and Social reform.
Introducing voter ID is hardly going to wipe out all government resources and put a stop to the social reform agenda.

As for past elections. Who knows who actually turned up and voted? Nobody was required to show ID.

It will deny some people their right to vote.

It won’t. You currently need a name & address to apply to be on the electoral register.
People on the electoral register could easily be issued with ID.

You have to be on the register to vote now so nothing changes other than being issued with an ID card.

I suspect ID cards are a just a way for Boris to keep track of his many kids.

@Heatingsystemwoes

It will deny some people their right to vote.

It won’t. You currently need a name & address to apply to be on the electoral register.
People on the electoral register could easily be issued with ID.

You have to be on the register to vote now so nothing changes other than being issued with an ID card.

Yes it will.because I'd you don't have your ID on you, you are unable to vote.