Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

[flashbac]

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote.

By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?

@00100001

Because there's very little biter fraud...

Because hardly anyone actually bothers voting.

There's no fool proof system. Even having ID cards won't work. Because they'll be easily faked, because there can't be any electronic checking systems in place due to the logistics of it all. Abd again electronic systems potentially remove the right to an anonymous vote.

So it's all just a bit if a waste of time really.

^Yup.

@copernicium

I think it would be helpful for many things - look how many times you need a letter with your address on, that people no longer have, for example.

However, it must be free to all; not another Tory money making scheme.

Almost never in my case - how often and in what circumstances do you need it? It can never be "free" - if it's free to use we'll pay through taxes and the contracts will no doubt go to Tory donors (or whoever is in power at the time).

And your logic is akin to demanding id from everyone in the street each time they arrive home, since the "system" of just using your keys to enter your home potentially leaks like a sieve.

No it doesn't. The 'key' in this analogy is the voter ID that unlocks your front door., or access to the polling booth. Without the key you can't get in but neither can anyone else.

An unlocked door lets anyone walk in. Just because they haven't yet, it's no reason to leave the door wide open, is it?

I'm not sure why that is difficult for you to understand.

Totally agree OP. Ive not been abroad since 1986 (school trip) and i dont drive. So no need for a passport or a driving licence here

If it's free sure.

@Serpenta

Voter fraud in the UK is almost non-existent. This is just the Tories copying from the Republican's Big Book of Voter Suppression.

This this this this this this this this

@SunflowersAndLavender

I'm not sure why that is difficult for you to understand.
You can lose the attitude.
I didn't call you dim because your assertions on the prevalence of voter fraud defy logic or evidential proof.
I'm countering your argument - your point isn't "difficult for me to understand" - you are wrong.

@SunflowersAndLavender

How can it cut down on voter fraud when there isn't any to start with?

As has been explained several times on this thread, you can't possibly know whether there is or there isn't. All we do know is that the current system leaks like a sieve and the potential for fraud is huge. Just because very few incidences have been proven so far doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Your logic is like not bothering to lock your door because you don't know of anyone in your street who has been burgled.

So if there’s a load of undetected voter fraud going on, presumably all these imposters are voting Tory, as they seem to have been in power for a decade? Is this what Johnson’s government is concerned about?

I got my DC their provisionals when they were 15 so they had ID.

I know people say they do t need a passport or drivers license but this thread is highlighting that while they are maybe not needed for holiday or driving, they can be very useful for ID purposes

In Poland this has been the case for 50 years but like in most European countries we have National ID cards. All 18 years olds look forward to getting one proving they are now mature adults to be reckoned with:) No biggie IMO.

@SunflowersAndLavender

And your logic is akin to demanding id from everyone in the street each time they arrive home, since the "system" of just using your keys to enter your home potentially leaks like a sieve.

No it doesn't. The 'key' in this analogy is the voter ID that unlocks your front door., or access to the polling booth. Without the key you can't get in but neither can anyone else.

An unlocked door lets anyone walk in. Just because they haven't yet, it's no reason to leave the door wide open, is it?

I'm not sure why that is difficult for you to understand.

The voter ID is a barrier to voting.

It's too easy too fake if you really wanted to.

It is a complete waste of time and money as voter fraud is negligible.

Without your ID you cannot vote. This prevents you from your right to vote if for some reason you don't have that ID card on you at the time.

If you are happy knowing you're unable to vote because you lost your card on the way to the polling station, or you were mugged,or you were awaiting a replacement one, or you had to leave home in an emergency two days before and you had no chance to go back and get your voting ID card...or any other plausible reason. Then great for you. But I am not willing for my vote to be taken away from me because someone somewhere invented a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

@kalokagathos

In Poland this has been the case for 50 years but like in most European countries we have National ID cards. All 18 years olds look forward to getting one proving they are now mature adults to be reckoned with:) No biggie IMO.

I'd cards in of themselves aren't an issue,and are avoid alternative to a passport.

But requiring an ID card to vote to prevent voter fraud is a terrible idea. For many reasons.

@pointythings

The only way this should be allowed is if everyone over 18 is automatically issued with a free voter ID card, for which updates and replacements are also free, and if there is a massive drive to reach out to ensure people are given this. But that won't happen, because this is about voter suppression and not election fraud.

Totally agree with this.

Very slowly they are brining in reforms to ensure their voters can vote and the never lose.

In Poland this has been the case for 50 years but like in most European countries we have National ID cards. All 18 years olds look forward to getting one proving they are now mature adults to be reckoned withsmile No biggie IMO.

The biggy is that we don't have ID cards (and in 2011 the Tories actually repealed the legislation that was due to bring them in). So because these voter ID cards will not be compulsory, there will be lots of people who won't have photo ID and will have an added barrier to voting. The Tories know this will have a greater effect on people who traditionally would not vote for them. Which is why they are doing it.

Without your ID you cannot vote. This prevents you from your right to vote if for some reason you don't have that ID card on you at the time.

Okay. Fair enough. I have a sneaky feeling that the same people objecting to showing voter ID with a photo are also the same people opposed to national ID cards, which we would soon get used to carrying with us in the same way that we carry our keys and our bank card.

But anyway. How would you feel about this? Voter ID is requested and if you cannot provide it you have your finger dipped in semi permanent ink, or a hand stamp?

How many people against voter ID cards would support that? And if not why not?

Ask yourself: who benefits?

Given that voter fraud really is a red herring.

I am fundamentally opposed to ID cards, because anyone who has a right to know who I am can already legally find out. This shifts that fulcrum to me having to prove who I am. And I think we can be pretty damn sure who will be lining up to demand to see (and scan) our ID cards before 'allowing' us service, or entry to places.

I find it naively sweet those who want ID cards but with no 'biometric details' on them, please! Sure. Don't imagine for one moment our government won't seek to include other 'data' on our card. Medical information? How useful. Ah, I see you've had Hep C, sir.... or HIV, or refused a Covid vax.... Oh, a misdemeanour aged 14? Hmm. imagine that sort of information in the hands of the sort of operatives tasked with checking you out.

'If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear'.... depends who defines 'wrong', doesn't it?

You can bet your rear end that any National ID card issued in Britain will start with 'mission creep' from day one, and in the same way we have allowed our freedoms to be curtailed by Covid, we'll sleepwalk into surveillance Orwell would be proud of.

This is awful. It’s a barrier to voting for poorer people who can’t afford a passport or don’t drive. It cuts out young people who haven’t yet learnt to drive, which is in itself ridiculously expensive, or those who are unable to drive due to illness and disability. It cuts out older people too, especially older women who didn’t learn to drive or get a passport. And even if there is a free voter ID card introduced, would government honestly be able to deliver it without the inevitable cock up. Also it will be a logical nightmare getting these things made for people who don’t have the admin skills to get them or the family members to help them. This is a massive backwards step and it shouldn’t happen.

@Wotsitsarecheesy

Can someone please explain to me why the British are so averse to ID cards?

I was opposed to it last time it was suggested, because it wasn't just about ID cards. The database behind the ID cards was going to have all sorts of sensitive stuff on it too, like your medical records and employment history. And the number of people who could access that record was long. I wasn't opposed to an ID card at all, but I was opposed to the database holding so much other information that was unnecessary for simple ID verification. And knowing how government IT projects normally turn out (I worked in a government department that commissioned a major one), it would be bound to go wrong, be insecure and be a target for hackers/fraud.

I just googled this to aid my sketchy memory. Apparently the Information Commissioner at the time raised "substantial data protection and personal privacy concerns. He sought clarification of why so much personal information needed to be kept as part of establishing an individual's identity and indicated concern about the wide range of bodies who would view the records of services individuals have used." There was also concern about 'feature creep', with even more info being stored/accessed, even linking up high street shops to police databases.

I think many at the time would have been happy with a basic ID card. It was all this other information about you being linked to your biometric data and accessible by an estimated 50k organisations that was the problem. And it made the database a 'one stop shop' for hackers/fraudsters.

I would have the same opinion again. I would support an ID card, including for voter ID, if it was free and if it only contained the information needed to verify your identity. But I don't want to be on a database that contains a vast amount of personal and sensitive information, that tracks my routine interactions, and is accessible by hundreds of thousands of people. Which is effectively what was proposed last time.

^^ What Wotsit said.

You can be sure there'll be far more information on them than 'basic ID' and you can be sure, when there's a profit to be made, your data will be sold on, and the database will be hacked.

This is awful. It’s a barrier to voting for poorer people who can’t afford a passport or don’t drive.

No it doesn't. Passports and driving licences are acceptable as photo ID, but they are not the only form of ID that will be acceptable. Don't take the OP's thread title at face value.

Sorry, the OP's opening post, not the thread title.

@SunflowersAndLavender

Can someone please explain to me why the British are so averse to ID cards?

Honestly, I don't get it either. We've already gone SO far down the road of Big Brother knowing our every move that why we wouldn't just give in to them and make everyone's lives easier, I cannot imagine.

The price of freedom, such as it is, is eternal vigilance.

Never 'give up'. You have to hold your elected officials accountable.

And were nowhere near the level of Big Brother than many other countries. Yet.

Solution to a problem that doesn't exist!! Disenfranchising for disadvantaged voters

@SunflowersAndLavender

I think almost every other highly developed nation uses ID cards. I can't think offhand of any that don't except us. It's madness.

Dominic, is that you?

It's a good idea. Voter fraud, whilst for the moment confined to some parts of the country, is a real and growing problem.

Would be very useful in many other areas of life too. I couldn't even go to a concert without photo ID a few years back.

Of course photo ID cards should be very cheap or free - but so long as that's the case, I'm all for it.

What other options for photo ID are acceptable? Are they readily available, cheap, well advertised?

For the record, I was never against mandatory ID cards, for this exact reason, but funnily enough, the stories, particularly Brexit loving David Davies campaigned heavily against them.