Should people be allowed second homes?

[Soubriquet]

I’m not talking about those who have second homes to rent out, I mean ones who leave the house empty 90% of the year and visit maybe once or twice as a holiday home.

Surely it’s bad for the area to have so many empty houses that can’t be used as they are holiday homes especially if they live abroad and only visit once every few years. If ever

I’m also concerned that there is so much homelessness in this country that could easily solved by reducing the second home movement and allowing people to rent cheaply

So. What do you think?

@CirclesWithinCircles yes technically you can buy a 1 bedroom flat here in Hawick for £40k. It’s only 40 square meters though.

www.cullenkilshaw.com/residential-property/properties-for-sale/property-details/?prop=126706

You can also buy a 4 bedroom for £600k

www.cullenkilshaw.com/residential-property/properties-for-sale/property-details/?prop=146677

Not sure we count as underpopulated either? I don’t live in Hawick, but close enough that I am often there.

Please don’t sent hoards of absent 2nd home owners here. It’s a lovely community and doesn't deserve to turn into a ghost-town! Happy to have holiday-lets though so the tourists can enjoy our countryside 😊

@Ifailed

Whose going to tell the Queen about the proposed ban on 2nd homes?

Was going to comment something similar but thought to rtft first.

We can ban second (and third, fourth,10th) homes as long as we start with the RF.

People forget this in their bid to tell everyone else they shouldn't have 2nd homes. Why shouldn't they when the "leaders" aren't leading by example?

Oh wait...I hear you say it's different for them. How so? They're gods and we're only humans?

Just to flag up that Thatcher's government built more council houses each year than Blair/Brown did during their entire term.

And as normal, no one is suggesting population control. You can build on every square inch of land but if you don't control demand it's pointless.

@AnyFucker

No second cars

No second children

No second holidays

No second jobs

Etc. Those things are also not “essential”

One of everything, yeah ?

Yep. But let's only complain about what we don't/can't/don't wish to have.

Of course moving people off the land to make way for sheep was horrific. And resulted in huge population shift, from rural to urban areas. And yes, that rural depopulation hasn’t changed since.

IMO that doesn’t mean people should have the right to a second home somewhere in Sutherland (for example) because Great great great Aunty Whoever used to Croft there.

But either way, the Clearances account for vast tracts of land in Scotland. What about national parks, Lake District, London, the SW, etc. To me it’s insane that there are so many empty (effectively) properties in London, in Home Counties, in the SE, given the housing issues faced by normal everyday people who want to live there.

Homes should require specific use covenants, much like commercial property or agricultural land. This would allow local councils to maintain balanced communities. While it's true reducing 2nd homes would have little effect on homelessness it would definitely increase the availability of affordable homes in many rural and coastal communities.

I get what you mean op, but the second home owners aren't going to like it

Clearly there are a few on this thread, judging from the defensive answers.

It’s pretty obvious that homes that are empty for 90% of the year wreck the local economy and infrastructure, plus they drive up house prices for local inhabitants. And anyone who denies it is being disingenuous. We were second home-owners by default for two years while we trying to sell my late MIL’s house, but we sold it at a sensible price to someone local to the area.

I agree that this is a problem that needs to be addressed, but I don’t know what the solution is.

@JocastaNu

Allowed? Yes, free country and all that.

However, they should be taxed massively. Double Council Tax and an additional tax as a proportion of its value each year.

Or what about double council tax etc if it is in an area where there is a shortage of homes that are affordable for local people to rent/buy - and evidence of housing shortage?

Genuinely don't know a single second home owner who can afford or want it empty. It impacts insurance for one. Also they rent it out so same as any other type of holiday let plus some live there 6mths plus a year.
Second homes also cover those who say work in London mid week and live at home at weekends. It's not all holiday let stuff.
Yes I own a holiday home with my family, owned it 20 years plus within family. Its empty 8 weeks a year usually and those are spread out.
Also council tax is higher in that area and you don't use amenities and those speaking of community. It's remote... Literally no community bar the neighbour who I've know since a child and still see all her family, order her shopping, cut grass and attended her funeral.
There isnt a sweeping brush regarding holiday let's or second homes, yes some are bad and yes some are good. They certainly wouldn't ever be affordable homes as such due to location eg London or seafront so expensive regardless.

It’s selfish and greedy but I don’t see how it could be made illegal to buy a second home and it never would anyway as all the MPs have them!

We were second home-owners by default for two years while we trying to sell my late MIL’s house, but we sold it at a sensible price to someone local to the area.

Did you have any better offers from people outside the local area?

I would prefer there to be a set of rules such as in Guernsey in the Channel Islands where some houses are designated 'local market'. Tend to be smaller 1 or 2 bed properties though. Easier to define local in a small island though.

So bored of these posts. All the same, all seem to be posted by some Labour apparatchik testing out policies.

YABU
Not allowing 2nd homes will not magically solve so many different problems.

Many homeless people have close relatives who are not homeless. They need all sorts of complex support to have a normal life.

Yes, seasonal tourist locations feel deserted out of season. Stop 2nd homes and restrict tourism, and you will see them die out completely in 50 years. Younger generations will leave not because they can't afford a super cheap home, but because they don't have a job. And if you somehow create jobs there, the 2nd home owners will move there permanently (they do like the place, that's why they bought it in the first place) .

There may be good reasons to cap the number of non-residents owning properties in some locations, but that's a different matter.

Did you have any better offers from people outside the local area?

No. It needed a bit of work doing to it, and was priced accordingly. It isn't really a holiday home or second home type of house. Just a boring bungalow in an area full of bungalows with retired residents, and we struggled to sell it.

I'm sure it would be impossible to stop - DH could buy a house then I could buy another . Two homes, different people.

@NewVariable I don’t think anyone has suggested that it would solve all kinds of homelessness, particularly complex cases where people need additional support. However it should impact the more simple type of homelessness where there literally is not enough housing stock, which drives prices out of people’s reach.

Similarly there are relatively few people protesting against holiday lets. It’s more an objection to property which is left vacant for much of the year.

@user143677433
That's the OP's idea:
I’m also concerned that there is so much homelessness in this country that could easily solved by reducing the second home movement and allowing people to rent cheaply

Also, I have not seen a lot of evidence for homeless people who cannot afford to buy. I've heard they end up renting.

As for the 90% of time empty homes - how many of these are there at all? I don't think many people could afford it, so what numbers are we talking about? Let's not forget, that for people who live in those tourist-seasonal places in the UK it would feel like most of the homes are empty btw Sep and May

[quote NewVariable]@user143677433
That's the OP's idea:
I’m also concerned that there is so much homelessness in this country that could easily solved by reducing the second home movement and allowing people to rent cheaply

Also, I have not seen a lot of evidence for homeless people who cannot afford to buy. I've heard they end up renting.

As for the 90% of time empty homes - how many of these are there at all? I don't think many people could afford it, so what numbers are we talking about? Let's not forget, that for people who live in those tourist-seasonal places in the UK it would feel like most of the homes are empty btw Sep and May[/quote]
It becomes a viscous spiral. People who can’t afford to buy rent, then those in more volition circumstances who would previously have been able to rent can’t. It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that the housing crisis wouldn’t be improved by releasing housing stock.

As for empty houses belonging to second home owners. Of the ten houses immediately surrounding mine, 2 of them are empty except for about 8 weeks of the year. We live in a popular tourist spot.

@Soubriquet

There was someone on here the other day posting about their town in Cornwall. Those who are born locally are struggling to find a house because so many are actually owned. In reality, they are empty 95% of the year as they are just used as holiday homes

It means the people who want to stay in the area can’t, because no houses are available for them to buy.

This has always been the case though. We were priced out of our local area in the late 80's and had to relocate to somewhere cheaper. There waas no support network, family or friends. It's life, you have to go with what it's like at the time. Oh, and life isn't fair.

I would do graduated tax on second homes

1. empty for more than 1 year double or triple council tax and a letter sending compulsory purchase at end of second year if no good reason given ie waiting for probate; someone on short term work placement elsewhere or abroad but is their main home normally would be valid reasons ( also council could offer to use as a short term rental no assured tenancy where they maintain property to existing standard and organise storage of owners furniture etc and promise to return to owners as found within 3- 6 months of owners notifying them of return or some other legally enforcing contract which disadvantages neither side)

house occupied less than 50 days a year heavy tax x3 50-100 days tax x 2 house occupied at least 100 days a year less heavy tax x 1.5 house rented out as holiday let or used for more than 6 months a year treat as normal

@TeacupDrama,
I think you are trying to provide a detailed solution without first taking account of all the aspects of the problem. 2nd homes owned by UK residents in sea-side/hill locations would be a bit different to, say saudis owning a place in london

@user143677433,

We do have a housing problem in the UK. And a problem with wages not keeping up with the property prices partly as a result of inflation management years ago.
Creating restrictive ownership laws and policing investments is not the right way forward.
Releasing thousand of sea-side properties will not help young families in London and other big cities to buy a home.

@NewVariable I’m sure that’s true, but (while they also have my sympathy) it’s not families in places like London that I am thinking of. It’s families in places like Alnmouth.

I guess what we both agree on is that it’s a complex problem with many variables

It's a problem in the Lake District, and in turn makes it hard for the hospitality industry to get staff because they cannot afford accommodation in the area.