Angela Rayner sacked [shock]

[Youarecountingonme]

So Keir Starmer chooses the one shining light in the labour party. A single mother at sixteen, the most inspiring story to come out of the Labour party. Anyone that has listened to Angela about her struggles to obtain a degree and to better herself. Starmer chooses her as the whipping girl for his failures and has sacked her as co-ordinator. He can't remove her as deputy, but how much longer is that position tenable?
I am genuinely shocked and horrified. The failures of the labour party on are on HIM. He should be resigning.

Absolutely livid. What has the Labour party come to.

Her having the cheek to call people scum. They might as well elect Vikki Pollard as deputy leader of the Labour party. We might at least get a laugh.

@Youarecountingonme

You clearly have no idea what it is like kora so I will leave you with your ignorance. The problem is not AR but the inequality that starts at birth and continues to grow in this country.

Well I know what's it like, as I said in my earlier post and I fundamentally disagree that AR is any kind of role model. There must be hundreds, maybe thousands of people raised in similar or worst situations that are more deserving of our admiration.

Being pregnant at sixteen is nothing to be ashamed of,

For most cases, it is.

It is naive and foolish to be pregnant at 16. AR wears it sometimes as a badge of honour

The judgement on here is unfair. Lots can of kids make poor life choices at 16. She grew up and did well for herself, so why judge her now?

The judgement on here is unfair. Lots can of kids make poor life choices at 16. She grew up and did well for herself, so why judge her now?

I am not judging a random person, I am judging someone who told us she has a history of crushing those around her, she wants to control the country if Starmer as elected PM died. You really think AR is one of the best Brains in Britain?

For all his working class claims, Angela Rayner is far more one of the people than Keir Starmer will ever be. She knows what it's like to be poor and disadvantaged. That should have put her in a position to understand many of the issues at play in an area like Hartlepool. But instead they lost spectacularly in a seat that years ago Peter Mandelson had a massive majority in. For that reason she had to go.

The first class train tickets did her no favours, but I think her lack of success, and the party's is symbolic of Labours identity crisis, trying to be 'of the people' while appealing to the wealthy London middle class.

Starmer should also go really. He's even less electorally appealing than Corbyn, which is saying something. Labour won't win the 2024 election, meaning that by the time of the next election after that we'll have had basically half a century of Tory leadership, with the exception of the Blair era. So in 50 years Labour have only identified 1 electable leader.

OP: Is this Starmer's way of appealing to women? Insulting.

Far more insulting to women, men and the electorate to keep someone in a job at which they have spectacularly failed just because they are a woman with an 'inspiring' story.

AR should not be judged for her background but equally that background should not be used as a 'get out of jail free' card to stop any criticism, nor to excuse her bad behaviour. AR is judged on her abilities and performance now as she rightly should be.

I'm reading this thread and it's fascinating.

I'm sensing that:

• People are quite fed up with a kind of identity politics.

• People are beginning to see 'identity' stuff as actuslly running in opposition to competence - and wanting competence.

• A strong bridling against a feeling that there is something coercive about identity politics.

I don't understand the fuss over first class train tickets. It's hardly the monetary equivalent of flying business class or taking a private plane.

On some routes the first class carriage is only nominally more expensive and if you want to get on with some work whilst travelling it's easier to do so.

I've sometimes travelled first class just because there wasn't much price difference when booking, I'm not exactly posh and it's certainly not a slight on anyone travelling coach for that particular journey.

I'm no fan of Angela but the train thing seems petty.

It's hardly outrageous that she's been sacked for failing in her role as campaign manager. To misquote Bridget Jones' Baby: "I'm not sacking her because she's female, I'm sacking her because she's shit at her job".

It's not uncommonly to get pregnant at 16 and do ok for yourself. It's really nothing special or unique.

Much more of an achievement, when it comes to Labour MPs, was David Blunkett. The barriers and discrimination faced for people with disabilities, across the board, are huge. (Shame it was his government that made life even harder for other disabled people, but that's another issue.)

*uncommon

@HarrietPierce its so annoying that people can't get their facts straight about the Labour leader. Calling him 'posh' when his backgroud is anything but

Boris and David Cameron are old Etonians and both have won elections.
Maybe most people,have other things to worry about than distinguishing between various shades of ‘posh’.

I am shocked to see so many judgemental comments on this thread. Please bear in mind that they are parents on Mumsnet who have had children at such young ages. Why would you forever hold someone into account for a decision they made at 16.

People who did things the "right things, in the right order" bore me to death and are not interesting/ let's face it. But someone who has gone through hardships (domestics violence, young carer, drug addict, teenage pregnancy, single parents, poor-dirt poor, abuse etc, having X amount of children, disability ) and have overcome these are inspirational why? Because society deem these people as the scum of society and expect these types of people to fail. When people change the Status Quo- wow they are Amazing.

[quote Andante57]**@HarrietPierce its so annoying that people can't get their facts straight about the Labour leader. Calling him 'posh' when his backgroud is anything but

Boris and David Cameron are old Etonians and both have won elections.
Maybe most people,have other things to worry about than distinguishing between various shades of ‘posh’.[/quote]
You're right that sensible people don't care about silly shallow identity politics like background or accent. Left school at 16 and lived in a council home, John Major won an election too, as did Fettes educated (sometimes known as the Scottish Eton) Blair. And grew up in a manor house and attended prep school, Corbyn, became leader of the opposition. We all know background is or should be irrelevant.

But, her justifiable point is that the people who do care about such superficial things keep incorrectly labelling Starmer as posh and a Londoner. He's neither.

@secular39

I am shocked to see so many judgemental comments on this thread. Please bear in mind that they are parents on Mumsnet who have had children at such young ages. Why would you forever hold someone into account for a decision they made at 16.

People who did things the "right things, in the right order" bore me to death and are not interesting/ let's face it. But someone who has gone through hardships (domestics violence, young carer, drug addict, teenage pregnancy, single parents, poor-dirt poor, abuse etc, having X amount of children, disability ) and have overcome these are inspirational why? Because society deem these people as the scum of society and expect these types of people to fail. When people change the Status Quo- wow they are Amazing.

No I wouldn't, nor would I view that as scum. But someone who continues to peddle the fact she has come from having a baby at 16 as a reason to vote for her will inevitably have it discussed.

Nor do I care two hoots about the personal life of anyone in a business/professional/political world but I would expect them to build their skills and experience and put them to good use to deliver better results. I see none of this from Rayner and I see no reason for her to win support of the electorate.

People who did things the "right things, in the right order" bore me to death and are not interesting/ let's face it

Secular39 you’ve accused people on this thread of being judgemental but that sentence of yours is just that.

@Grenlei both Starmer and Rayner come from disadvantaged backgrounds they are just different.

I remember this because I was surprised which MPs had a sick parent who needed care while they were a child, who haven't banged the drum for social care.

Labour are on a fools errand at the moment as they are trying to be two things , a proportion of their traditional working class voters all voted for brexit whereas their London people opposed it
They are a split party

The first class tickets were not due to her inability to travel in second class, but for reasons of safety. She had some police warnings about creditable death threats, and there were safety reasons for travelling as discreetly and safely as possible, I am not sure anyone could be angry with her for choosing the safest way to travel. Many other female MPs have had similar issues.

I do find it rather repellent that some people are choosing to paint her as an incompetent that finds herself appointed only because she was sixteen and pregnant and a self starter, if you had taken the time to listen to her life story you may well come to a different view.

The discrimination towards a young mother is rife on here, and it is unnerving, she is not expecting to be treated with more respect because of her life situation, but she should not be torn down because of it.
How many women these days are putting themselves forward as MPs now? Why don't you do it if it is so easy?

You can then tolerate the death threats, the trolls and the stalkers. AR is doing a very difficult job, and whilst you may all think there is a world of people out there that would be better than her, I am minded to be grateful that anyone is choosing to do at all! These days it is probably the most dangerous, divisive and ugly industry you can find yourself in as a female MP. Whilst I would like to imagine you are all beautifully polished with sterling Oxford credentials, one has to wonder why you would feel the need to rip into any woman and tear her down in this way. This is seriously on you if you think it is acceptable.

Lets talk about how many useless and shitty male MPs that are far worse than AR could ever be, the sexual assaults, fraud and plain incompetence over the years, but she is the easy target for some isn't she, including seemingly for Keir Starmer. What a poor show for her on here, and an illuminating indictment of our times.

Well there are certain female MPs who enable the culture of it being unsafe for female MPs, where was her support of Rosie Dudfield for instance? Why is she so keen to crush women wanting to safeguard? She seems to have a pattern as I say of crushing her Mother who she admits she bullies, still apparently reliant upon others as still she is unable to read and write, why? Why did so many of her friends feel crushed in association with her, to the point they are now dead? Why is she so keen for children to be permanent pre pubescent, why were her male staff involved in the mob pounding on windows at women in Brighton?

@Andante57

People who did things the "right things, in the right order" bore me to death and are not interesting/ let's face it

Secular39 you’ve accused people on this thread of being judgemental but that sentence of yours is just that.

There is a difference between calling someone boring/not interesting (we all don't like everyone!) vs condemning and putting someone down for a decision they made at 16!

@secular39

I am shocked to see so many judgemental comments on this thread. Please bear in mind that they are parents on Mumsnet who have had children at such young ages. Why would you forever hold someone into account for a decision they made at 16.

People who did things the "right things, in the right order" bore me to death and are not interesting/ let's face it. But someone who has gone through hardships (domestics violence, young carer, drug addict, teenage pregnancy, single parents, poor-dirt poor, abuse etc, having X amount of children, disability ) and have overcome these are inspirational why? Because society deem these people as the scum of society and expect these types of people to fail. When people change the Status Quo- wow they are Amazing.

People who did the right things in the right order generally have an easier time of it and better options.

Like Angela I was a mum at 16 and whilst I'm not ashamed of it (and don't think anyone should be, young people do all kinds of daft stuff) I would never promote it as inspirational.

I put a lot of effort into trying to prevent my DD repeating the cycle. I'm still not a grandmother in my mid forties so it's paid off and she's been able to experience freedoms and opportunities that were either closed off to me or harder to attain.

I don't have a powerful and influential job like Angela but if I did I just don't think I'd want it repeatedly brought up decades later or feel like it had a bearing on my ability to do a job or not.

As an aside I don't think anyone ever treated me as scum back then and this was back in the 90s at the height of the Tories war on feckless single mothers. I actually found a number of people, some total strangers, went above and beyond to give me a leg up in getting back into education, securing decent housing and generally bettering my prospects.

I remember them fondly because they did make a difference and I think what they had in common was not expecting me to fail or expecting less of me because I had additional responsibility. I strongly feel that helps more than being sold a sense of victimhood.