Suing the NHS (*TW*)

[WhipperSnapperSteve]

TW - I was raped at 14, the bastard also raped me orally.

I'm male if not obvious from the username, have been on MN for years, my sex should make zero difference.

I had an oral laparoscopic procedure called an OGD&Endoscopic Ultrasound done four years ago and due to the previous trauma was given propofol sedation (it's the general anaesthetic component they use first to knock you out, milky white emulsion) and I woke up the procedure complete with no issues.

I needed an OGD (it's an endoscope threaded through the mouth into the stomach and first part of the duodenum) at the start of the year and called the department to be told that they'd give me midazolam/fentanyl sedation and that the dr would give me more than usual and just to mention it to them.

The dr could see I was super anxious, I explained my history (a triggering challenge in itself) and was told I'd be comfortable and "it wouldn't last long). It was a nightmare, I lay there completely frozen; and I have flashbacks both to the original assault and the procedure daily. He gave me the standard sedation.

I need a follow-up and this is agreed to be under propofol.

I really want to sue but I'm well aware what people think of suing the NHS, and that money wouldn't make me feel better. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what you want to achieve by suing? I'd definitely put in a complaint though asking them to review their protocols for patients who have prior trauma.

I think if you were sedated then why the need to sue?

Sorry for all you have been through. I would contact PALS at the hospital you were treated at. It's a first step to giving feedback/complaining and trying to get them to improve practice.

Have you had any recent support to manage your flashbacks etc? There are good treatments, often not involving talking about the past (unless you want to).

This isn’t really something to sue over, the doctor wasn’t negligent.

I am so sorry it sounds horrific but suing won’t get you very far.

You need to complain, because what you rightly want is protocols in place for these situations and doctors allowing for anxiety etc. Start with PALs see if you can find anyone else to campaign

It’s wrong and it shouldn’t happen but the legal route won’t get you anywhere

What would you be suing for?

Nobody was negligent here and nothing was untoward, you don’t have a case.

I'm so sorry for that you've been through. It sounds very traumatic and I'm not surprised that the procedure was triggering. I would definitely speak to PALS. I agree with the others that I don't think you have much of a legal case in terms of suing but definitely complain. You've been treated very poorly.

Agree with everyone else - suing is totally the wrong thing to do

What are you suing for?

I absolutely think you should put in an official complaint but I don't think there are grounds to sue.

Have you had therapy for the mental trauma from the assault?

I’m not against suing the NHS because they have a huge insurance policy in place for this and doctors can be negligent.

That said, I don’t think you’d get very far with this. You’d have to prove that your life has substantially been altered (I think) to get anywhere near it. Most “successful” cases are for things like birth trauma, death caused by negligence etc. I don’t think that this is anywhere near on that scale.

Sorry for your experience

Suing the NHS won’t resolve your trauma. In fact it would involve revisiting it and I am unsure why you would want to do that. The NHS did not assault you and suing them will not help resolve your issues towards the individual that did assault you.

Im so sorry to hear this. It sounds absolutely horrific. I’d definitely put in a complaint but probably wouldn’t sue.

I find some of these comments quite blunt. I’m sure they’re factually correct but given the nature of the original post a softer/more sympathetic response might have been more tactful.

I am female and experienced similar. I'm so sorry for you.

It's the perpetrator of the original terrible assault to blame here. I do know what triggers are like and how debilitating they cannot be but I don't think you can blame this doctor to the extent of suing and leaving his career tarnished. Please insist on being totally put out for any future, similar procedures and avoid this trigger.

I don't know what else to say except I'm sorry for what happened and I hope you're getting real life support for your ptsd.

I think you should complain via PALS. I don’t think getting money off them would make you feel better, I think you need to make your point that you were told you would be given more and you weren’t. It may be because the Dr wasn’t comfortable doing that, and it is his right not to, but it would be good for you to have the conversation and get your point over. You also need reassurances for any future procedures.

My DM is currently in the middle of this BUT they did nearly kill her due to negligence and she will now never work again.

That was a year and a half ago and it's not even nearly sorted. It's not straightforward or easy and to be honest unless it was something with life long issues I wouldn't do it.

I'm further sorry for the responses you have had from people who are so keen to make their point that they leave all humanity and empathy behind. I hope they stand on lego.

I agree that PALS is the best option. A legal case is long, stressful and IME very bad for your mental health. I have been through a criminal injuries claim and an investigation followed by an inquest. Both very traumatic.
I think speaking to PALS would be more likely to lead you through a process where you get an apology, some understanding and maybe counselling. There is more chance that the medical staff will learn from this and improve their procedures for the next patients.
I am so sorry you went through this.

Hi OP,

I’m so sorry you had this experience. It sounds like it was very traumatic, and it’s understandable why.

I’m not remotely opposed to people suing the NHS. Sometimes medical professionals are negligent, and people deserve compensation in those cases.

That said, I think you would be unlikely to make out a case for negligence in this instance. There is a three part test for determining whether a medical professional has been negligent, as follows:

1. There is a usual course of action in respect of the events that occurred

1. The medical professional failed to follow the usual course of action

1. The course of action taken by the medical professional was such that no reasonable medical professional exercising due care and attention could have taken it

In the circumstances you have described, it sounds like the medical professional was following a usual course of action in respect of the sedation. I don’t think you could successfully argue that the course he took was one which no reasonably competent medical professional could have taken, given that he seems to have followed a routine procedure.

That said, it’s very clear that you did not receive a good standard of care in respect of your personal circumstances, and I think you would be well within your rights to make a complaint and ask the trust to review their procedures for offering care to patients who have experience a previous trauma. That way, you can hopefully take some comfort from knowing that improvements are made which will hopefully stop something like this from happening again.

I hope that you’re ok now, and healing well.

I am sorry this happened to you, but can I ask what will suing achieve?

I think you are better to try and complain via PALS and work with them to make the situation better for you in the future ( and for others who may also go through this)

Suing may also mean you have to continue to relive what’s happened , personally, angry as I would be, I would be seeking counselling now and working with the hospital to make sure in future I got what was needed.

Midazolam is a good drug and for most people works well and people have no memory of the procedure.
Unfortunately it seems the drug didn't work that well for you.
It doesn't make a case where you can sue.
It is a standard drug combination to be given.
I hope you can get some counseling/therapy to recover.

You can reasonably put in a complaint, but when you say you want to sue, it comes across as just wanting a financial payout.

If you want recognition for the way they wrongly made you feel, and an apology, and some reassurance that they will improve their procedures, then you’d be completely entitled to that imo, but you can achieve that by going through the complaint process. You don’t need to jump straight to thinking about court unless you just want money.

Is the nub of your complaint that they did not carry out the 'extra' midazolam/fentanyl sedation that had been agreed as part of your consent procedure?

Did they write that down rather than tell you verbally?

Do you feel that you should have been offered propofol rather than asked to try the midazolam/fentanyl option which didn't sedate you?

I think you need to write a letter, but I'm not sure if suing is the way forward or will achieve much. Obviously the Dr didn't understand the extent of how traumatic this would be for you just to have standard sedation, but I think educating the medical staff here would be better than suing. I would say that in the Drs viewpoint, many are reluctant to give general anaesthetics over sedation because of the increased physical risks to the patient, so their decision not to give profolol was probably given with the best of intentions, even though it was obviously not the right decision in your case. I'm really sorry the whole process has been so traumatic for you.

I knew I'd get blunt responses, not a bad thing really. I'm on the waiting list for EMDR and therapy.