Suing the NHS (*TW*)

[WhipperSnapperSteve]

TW - I was raped at 14, the bastard also raped me orally.

I'm male if not obvious from the username, have been on MN for years, my sex should make zero difference.

I had an oral laparoscopic procedure called an OGD&Endoscopic Ultrasound done four years ago and due to the previous trauma was given propofol sedation (it's the general anaesthetic component they use first to knock you out, milky white emulsion) and I woke up the procedure complete with no issues.

I needed an OGD (it's an endoscope threaded through the mouth into the stomach and first part of the duodenum) at the start of the year and called the department to be told that they'd give me midazolam/fentanyl sedation and that the dr would give me more than usual and just to mention it to them.

The dr could see I was super anxious, I explained my history (a triggering challenge in itself) and was told I'd be comfortable and "it wouldn't last long). It was a nightmare, I lay there completely frozen; and I have flashbacks both to the original assault and the procedure daily. He gave me the standard sedation.

I need a follow-up and this is agreed to be under propofol.

I really want to sue but I'm well aware what people think of suing the NHS, and that money wouldn't make me feel better. Thoughts?

OP

I’m going to agree with pp and say @Motorina has given excellent advice.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

I’m currently in the process of taking legal action against the NHS (I was sexually assaulted by a doctor in 2019).

Whatever you chose to do, a solicitor or the Parliamentary Ombudsman won’t look at your case unless you’ve already complained to the hospital.

I’d say that there is a lot of difficulties in going over and over the events (I’ve been interviewed by the police, Social Services, the Hospital Trust, the GMC and have further written to my MO, the Ombudsman, the CQC, Healthwatch, various solicitors, the CEO of the Trust..and even newspapers). Every time it was setting me off and I still feel I’ve gotten nowhere. He has a police record for DBS checks but not so much as a caution. The hospital defended him (though apparently believing me apparently). The GMC felt it couldn’t predict a win at Tribunal so didn’t take it to Tribunal. The Ombudsman still hasn’t answered (2years later). I could go on.

I have PTSD and various other psychological problems now. However, the only time I’ve felt in control again was taking legal action. No idea what the outcome will be.

I’d suggest you think about it from the aspect of the outcome you desire. As I said above you have very good advice.

I wish you luck. And EMDR therapy is very helpful for getting over trauma.

I dont think sueing would get your answers. I'd strongly complain to pals and keep following it up to make sure your never in this position again. I'm sorry for your awful experiences ♥️

I'm so sorry for what happened to you. As PP have said, suing probably won't help or bring you closure, and it's a very stressful, drawn out process. But please do consider contacting PALS & asking for an explanation and debrief. There could have been a valid medical reason they couldn't give you the sedation you'd asked for, but they at least could have explained that to you at the time.

I think you should definitely put in a complaint, because I think that the person who sedated you needs some empathy training. Given that you explained why you needed to have anaesthesia, rather than just be comfortable, they should have listened. You suffered mental trauma and therefore were supremely 'uncomfortable'.
The endoscopy is a AGP and you had it during Covid, so its not like this was something that was elective. Not that it should matter whether its an elective procedure. Please complain about this treatment, if not for yourself, then for other patients who might suffer 'comfort' at the hands of this person.
Sueing the NHS is overkill I think.

@MrsMaizel

You agreed to that type of sedation 🙄

Do you realise or just not care that you are rolling your eyes at someone who is telling you their experience of a medical procedure was traumatic because they have previously been raped?

What sedation did you receive when you had your empathy bypass procedure?

Sorry that happened to you. The higher the level of sedation the greater the risks. So of course they’re always going to want to do the lowest level they can. I don’t see how suing is going to help you. But other types of help you can access might.

Firstly I'm so sorry that you suffered an horrific assault and that the trauma is still so great for you.

I worked in Endoscopy for many years and I'm married to a Consultant Endoscopist. To use Propofol the procedure either needs to be done in main theatres (instead of the Endoscopy unit), or an anaesthetist needs to attend the Endoscopy apartment and certain equipment needs to be available. If these conditions can't be met then Propofol cannot be used. This is because it's a much riskier sedation drug than Midazolam or Fentanyl.

If you agreed to the procedure to be done under Midazolam and Fentanyl (and I suspect you signed a consent form to that effect), then I wouldn't think you have a case.
However it is important to feedback and state that you think staff need training on how to deal with survivors of sexual abuse.

My son was sent home from A&E and nearly died after not being assessed properly. I felt that was negligent. Think you are being a bit unreasonable OP.

Symptahies for what you've been through but you don't have grounds to sue. I've recently looked into suing the NHS for negligence; the threshold is pretty high and you'd have to prove serious ramifications as a result of negligence to even have a chance of a successful case.

I remember you posting before with another story involving medical professionals.
I'm so sorry to hear you're still encountering difficulties.

@Porcupineintherough I think you are the one who doesn’t understand consent. The OP consented to, and received the procedure under sedation. The OP doesn’t feel that the sedation worked sufficiently but as qualified people have explained, sedation is a very fine balancing act, and cannot be 100% exactly predicted in advance. All of this is explained as part of the consent process, which OP did give. The OP had a preferred type of sedation but it is a more risky form of sedation and thus not always in the patient’s best interests - this is not a matter of consent.

@soontobe60. In answer to your question I believe the camera pill travels from mouth to anus taking photos at a pre determined rate on the entire journey. I know someone who had one who was surprised Dd hadn’t been offered it. But maybe I’m wrong about what it does. Dd has given up any hope of any further investigation or meaningful treatment and just puts up with frequent stomach pain, vomiting and diarrhoea.

No, I’m right, the camera pill does the same thing as a colonoscopy. www.nhsinform.scot/tests-and-treatments/non-surgical-procedures/colon-capsule-endoscopy

Can also be used as an endoscopy so maybe the OP could ask about that rather than another endoscopy which he said he has to have.

www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscopy/about/pac-20393366

Is profolol a sedation or a general anaesthetic, would that have been made clear on the consent form.

You can't take biopsies with a pill cam. It's not the same thing as a colonoscopy at all

@DogsSausages

Is profolol a sedation or a general anaesthetic, would that have been made clear on the consent form.

Propofol is a deep sedation and requires anaesthetic trained staff to be present. Routinely those staff are not employed in Endoscopy departments. It also requires different monitoring equipment which is not usually used in Endoscopy.

As to what the consent form stated I would imagine it said sedation as the Endoscopist knew they would not be using Propofol anyway.

"Is profolol a sedation or a general anaesthetic, would that have been made clear on the consent form."

Technically profolol is a deep sedation like @MissyB1 said. It's not a general anaesthetic because the patient is still breathing on their own without an airway put in, but because there is no reversal agent to profolol you have to be very careful with the dose and it can only be given by an anaesthetist.

Sorry that you've had this experience OP.

@FreakinFrankNFurter OP should have stood his ground and said that was not acceptable beforehand .

Do you mind me asking what the dose of midazolam and fentanyl were OP? At my trust we have a maximum amount that we can give, which is 3mg midazolam and 100mcg fentanyl.

No they didn't @Miljea. There were some very stark responses with no sympathy expressed. But OP says he is ok with that, which is the important thing.

Propofol is both a sedative and an induction agent and most certainly is used as a GA (in fact increasingly so). If you’ve never heard of TIVA you’re simply not in a position to comment on this at all.

I’m really sorry this happened to you OP. Please do complain. Procedural sedation without an anesthetist present is limited because it’s important that the patient doesn’t lose the ability to protect their airway (as the procedural doctor is not an airway doctor). Clearly you need to have sedation administered by an anesthetist as they are trained airway doctors. This should have been recognized given your history of trauma. We have separate lists for scopes, for one of them the sedation is delivered by an anesthetist who can also administer a GA if needed.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP. It must've been extremely traumatic.

I've not experienced the abuse you have but I've had a procedure under sedation that left me very distressed and traumatised. I had a gastroscopy followed by an endoscopy (hope I have that the right way round). By the time it came to the second part some of the sedation had worn off and I could feel everything, it was awful and so painful yet I was too sedated to be able to indicate that I could feel everything.

At my follow up I told the surgeon what I'd experienced. He was surprised I'd been so aware of what was happening. He did, however, explain everything and at the end of the appointment he apologised profusely. That meant the world to me, it was all I needed to come to terms with what had happened to me.

OP, I think you should ask for a debrief first of all then decide where to go from there. I know my situation was nothing like as serious as yours, but it might help.

If you do decide to sue, you need to first have exhausted every other avenue, and you need to be clear about exactly what you want to achieve. I wish you all the best.

@mynameiscalypso

I'm so sorry for that you've been through. It sounds very traumatic and I'm not surprised that the procedure was triggering. I would definitely speak to PALS. I agree with the others that I don't think you have much of a legal case in terms of suing but definitely complain. You've been treated very poorly.

How has he been treated poorly?

He was given sedation as per policy for Endoscopy, procedures were followed, there would be a lot more to consider if anything stronger was given especially Airway Management which is why this is done under mild sedation and not anything stronger.