Child pushed, bitten and scratched at nursery...complain or withdraw?

[AveenoBaby]

I will try and be brief! Name changed.
DD is 3, almost 4. Attends nursery 3 full days a week. Seemed very happy and settled.
About five months in to going, she mentions one little girl’s name more and more and says they are good friends. Excellent, I think. More fool me.

First incident; Nursery send DD home with incident note. Altercation over toy. DD has been bitten on the hand. Nursery don’t disclose name of other child. DD tells me the name later.

Second incident, following week; DD has a visible bite mark on her thumb. Again, incident report and dispute over toy. Nursery will keep an eye.

Two weeks later; DD has been pushed and had a bump on her head. Incident report. Apparently some blocks fell on her when pushed.

Following week; DD comes out of nursery subdued. No incident report but DD shows me scratch on arm which has dried. Not huge, but clearly deep enough to bleed a little. Mention to nursery the next morning, they say they will work with DD on ‘telling an adult if something’s wrong’

Two days later; DD has a scratch on her neck that has been bleeding. No incident report. Playing under a table and has been kicked.

Today; Told at pick up DD has been pushed. DD tells me on the way home she’s been hit on her body.

DD has said it’s the same child on each occasion. I don’t doubt this as the nursery have confirmed who it is when I’ve asked them direct.

I feel wretched for DD. Each time I’ve spoken to nursery I feel fobbed off. I get told they will keep them separate and talk about kind hands and space. Except I don’t feel reassured.

I don’t expect them to punish another 3 year old, but why should DD go to nursery at risk of this? I’ve spoken to nursery in person, emailed etc but I don’t know what else to do. I just want DD to be safe.

My instinct is to roar in there and lose my rag! Do I complain more, withdraw DD? She only has until September before reception and otherwise seems happy there.

Gosh that’s too long - sorry Also didn’t mean to enable the vote

Im sympathetic to parents of biters, but nursery are totally failing their duty of care.

Dates, detsils, report to OFSTED

How long has DD been there? I completely agree that she should be safe at nursery but would withdrawing her with such a short time left be more confusing? However if the nursery can’t keep her safe then they are not doing their job. It’s difficult!

Agree with PP, it's not necessarily an easy thing for nursery to deal with but they still have a duty to care for and safeguard your child which they're clearly not doing. I'd be making a formal complaint and also involving Ofsted if they don't take it seriously.

your nursery are really letting your DD down here, i would also kick up a fuss. this is unacceptable

you are not being unreasonable. demand a meeting with the manager, if no joy, remove and report them for failing to safeguard your DD

Put yourself in your dd’s shoes
Would you want to go somewhere where you are bitten, hit and scratched on a daily basis?

What response have you received from your emails?
How do they plan on keeping them apart? It’s easier said than done, and the devils in the detail. I would want to know physically what they are doing.

Given the timescale until Reception I wouldn't withdraw (unless a childminder has capacity and can pick things up immediately - I wouldn't bother with another pre-school), but I would ask for a lot more reassurance.

It's probably unreasonable to expect full-time obs on this child and your DD but you could ask to see what they plan to limit their contact etc. Specifics; can they be in different work groups, sat separately at lunch, watched carefully when playing outside etc.

Push for better, I had this with my son and he ended up in hospital with a split eyebrow because the little shit who no one could control, pushed him in to a shelf!!

I would suggest you ask for a meeting with the room leader or manager to discuss how they will be keeping DD safe. See how they respond and assess how you feel after that.

Ultimately you are trusting them with your child and it's their job to reassure you that they are up to the task. The odd scratch or push or bite I think is not unusual but I would want their response to be that they will be watching the other child like a hawk and step in proactively to distract or whatever. There should be a policy they are following, that they can show to you, and engaged staff who follow through.

My children have variously been a biter (autistic) and a bitee. A good nursery will not be about blaming or putting the onus on the children, but focussing on meeting both children's needs.

When DS1 was biting (fortunately a fairly short lived phase), his preschool ‘man-marked’ him until they’d found the triggers and removed him from interaction with them. Nobody got bitten after the first time (other than us at home). I would expect no less and am pretty shocked at the litany of injuries there. Your poor DD!

Thank you for all the replies. DD has been there just over 9 months and the plan was this would be her prep for reception, as it’s a nursery with a good reputation.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be bitten or scratched, which is why I’m so concerned. DD has no issue or upset going in to nursery, so otherwise seems happy.

I want to agree about a good nursery not apportioning blame, but part of me wants to hunt down the parents and have it out with them!

Nursery have said they try and keep them separate, but that they can’t be watched all the time. I understand that, but it keeps happening!

I’m going to ask for a meeting with the nursery head and check their policies. What are Ofsted likely to do if I complain?

part of me wants to hunt down the parents and have it out with them

They probably feel awful and are trying their best. This happens a lot, and it’s not parents’ fault.

Oh this might be heart-wrenching for you! I would ask for a meeting with the nursery manager and present this timeline of incidents.

For a start, could you swap your DD days for ones that vampire kid is not in?

"I want to agree about a good nursery not apportioning blame, but part of me wants to hunt down the parents and have it out with them!"

Just don't. You would look ridiculous.

Withdraw

My dd went to a nursery where she was pinched around the genital area by a boy who i suspect had ASD.

Dd never made a fuss so was left with this boy when he came over to hurt her. Staff were just happy that no one was crying

She had no end of bruises and after 3 days of nothing changing, I pulled her out and put her somewhere else

The nursery should be able to watch the children and keep them separated. The fact that they cannot suggests they do no have sufficient staffing levels to ensure the safety of the children.

It is worrying that the most recent incidents haven't had an injury form. It could be the nursery are failing to document it or that your daughter is not telling the staff. This in itself is worrying because she is clearly able to tell you, a grown up she trusts. I would be worried that the staff are not listening to her, or are fobbing her off. She has learned not to tell because nothing happens by the sounds of it.

part of me wants to hunt down the parents and have it out with them!

This makes me sad. My daughter is currently going through a biting phase. I've asked nursery to keep a close eye on her and if she is tired/angry to remove her from the situation. They don't seem to be keeping a close eye on her so has bitten another child again. If the parent of the child she has bitten was to have it out with me then I would sob. Do you have a suggestion how I manage the situation any more? I can't tape her mouth shut and I can't remove her from contact with children because that won't solve the problem either.

Nursery need to be the ones who step in and offer more supervision of the biting child. It's their responsibility to support all children. They need to ensure the safety of everyone and put in proper supervision for this. Ask for a meeting with the nursery manager/teacher and lay your feelings out for them. If they don't act then it needs to escalate to the local authority/OFSTED.

YANBU. Your first responsibility is to keep your DC safe.

All children in nursery get bitten or pushed occasionally- not this much, and not by the same child! That child doing it in question may well have undiagnosed SEN, or sadly even be being badly treated at home, but it’s not your child’s job to put up with it.

The nursery needed to deal with this, and clearly haven’t. I’d probably withdraw my child to a new nursery.

@AveenoBaby just to give you the perspective from the other side. My DS is 3, and has been the kid doing the hitting, scratching etc. Not always to the same child, but for a while it has been a frequent occurence. It has been difficult for us on many levels. For one, I absolutely hate the idea of other children being hurt and upset, and I can well understand parents being angry, frustrated and protective of their children. In their position, I would be too. For another, I am so limited in what I can do to stop it, because DS doesn't do these things at home, or when I am with him, and I'm not in nursery with him to see what happens to trigger this behaviour in him.

I do however accept that he is my responsibility, and I have worked daily with the nursery to improve his behaviour, and stop him from doing these things. It's taken several weeks, but we've managed to go a whole week now without him hurting someone, so we are getting there. But it has taken time and work, both from us at home, and the team at nursery. At one point I was having daily phone calls to report and strategise.

My point in all this is that the nursery should be working closely with the parents of the child who is hurting yours, to stop this behaviour. They may not be able to say specifically what they are doing but they should be able to reassure you that measures are being taken to improve this kid's behaviour, as well as to protect your child.

I would write to them by email and ask them what their plan is for keeping your child from getting hurt, and what they are doing to help this other child learn that the behaviour is unacceptable. And to be honest, if they are not forthcoming on that, or you're not convinced on the response, then I would consider a new nursery. As much as I empathise with the child doing the hurting, and their parents, I wouldn't want my child going into that environment every day and feeling frightened and unsafe.

Please don't have it out with the parents. They probably feel awful everytime they get their child's report and at that age there isn't much they can do if they aren't physically present at the time.

OP,

The nursery are doing a shit job at keeping your child safe if she is constantly being hurt.

End of.

Your child is not safe there.

This is not acceptable.

Your poor child having to put up with this.

Less concern with the nurserys feelings and more concern with your injured child.

Let them sort out the other child and their parents but they are not protecting your child and she is not safe.

They need telling this and reporting.
They haven't even informed you that she has been hurt on several occasions.

Very poor.

From someone who has worked in a nursery - have you confirmed with the nursery that the other child starts it and that it is just not retaliation? Eg incident over toy , your dd pushes the other child, other child bites in defence. The other parent might be getting incident slips as well! Just a thought.

Apologies for the comment about finding the other parents. It was tongue in cheek and I would of course not do that. It’s just incredibly frustrating all round.

Such a mixture of responses, thank you. No, we have never been told it is DD instigating or provoking. Nursery have confirmed it is the other child.

DH dropped her in today and spoke to a team member, who apparently has no knowledge of yesterday’s incident as she wasn’t on shift.

A couple of things could be going on here. It could be that the other child is out of control, it could just be that when your child gets hurt, it is aleays by this particular child just because thats who she plays with most ( and therefore who she is in close proximity to and who she argues over toys with). Toddlers are generally scrappy little fuckers when they are in a group IME. It could evem be that your toddler is initiating things or setting the other child off in some way (one of my kids had a habit of getting too close to other kids faces or putting toys too close to other kids faces, which preceeded the odd pushing incident, when she was in nursery).

Do your best to find out more about exactly what is going on before you decide in a course of action. Either get more i fo from the nursery on the exact situation or try and scope out whether other parents have concerns about the nutsery or anyof the other children.

I do understand the urge to go in there all guns blazing like some protective mama bear. It is hard to see your children get hurt. But realistically, toddlers are still learning about self conyrol and appropriate boundaries. IMO it can be detrimental for nursery staff to be too interventionist in their approach to managing behaviour and helicopter over the children. There's a lot to be said for letting them work it out between themselves.