Page 10 | To ask: do you have an inner-monologue?

LibertyMole · 04/05/2021 09:35

But then you would be thinking of a particular cake, rather than the idea of cakes in general.

I suppose I would think of cakes in terms of plato’s theory of forms. The perfect cake that encompasses all cakes but does not really exist.

PattyPan · 04/05/2021 09:46

I get the concepts and the inner monologue and I also have music playing uncontrollably in my head near-constantly. DP says my hearing is rubbish but it’s just that it’s so loud inside my head it sometimes drowns out external sounds!

Sunnidayz · 04/05/2021 09:55

All the fricking time. And sometimes it becomes an outer monologue too

A therapist friend of mine called it monkey mind and said I should only do it when I actually need to think/problem solve, not constantly. Easier said than done! Maybe mindfulness training would help?

PreggoFeminist86 · 04/05/2021 10:18

I don't! I think in a very similar way to you, OP. Very abstract, it's so tough to describe, but I almost think in images?

For example, if I think about wanting a sandwich I 'see' myself making the sandwich in my head/feel myself eating the sandwich? I don't actually think 'I want a sandwich' in words.

I only have a voice in my head if I am imagining a conversation with another person, or rehearsing an argument I recently found out that everyone in my family has an 'inner monologue' & it completely blew my mind.... apparently most people are walking around talking to themselves all day!

PreggoFeminist86 · 04/05/2021 10:19

I've had OCD since I was a child, I'm now wondering if thinking 'visually' rather than in words has contributed to it? It could possibly explain why intrusive thoughts always bothered me so much, especially as a kid...

diamondpony80 · 04/05/2021 10:21

I have an internal monologue but I have to really concentrate to visualize in detail. My images are pretty hazy and only there when I make an effort to see them.

I've always wondered how artists can just draw/paint out of their heads. They must have amazing visualization. I remember my art teacher in school not being able to understand why although I could copy something I saw in front of me very well, I couldn't draw out of my head at all. I just can't visualize clearly enough - even something I see every single day.

Thatisnotwhatisaid · 04/05/2021 10:25

Yeah, pretty much constantly. The worst time is when I’m walking to school especially if my toddler has fallen asleep so I don’t have anyone to chat to . I just think and keep thinking, often about really random nonsensical crap. I know walking is supposed to clear your mind but it’s always made mine busier than ever!

OlympicProcrastinator · 04/05/2021 10:26

I am utterly blown away. I can’t believe people go around with actual words / chatter in their head! That would be so annoying!

I’m like you OP. I have constant thoughts but I can’t imagine actually hearing ‘I want cake’ in my head if I wanted cake. I just know I want it and think about getting myself some but that doesn’t involve hearing the words in my head!! I’m blown away that it seems the majority of people have actual voices in their mind.

Every day is a school day in this life!

OlympicProcrastinator · 04/05/2021 10:34

All babies and toddlers before they learn language think in the abstract. Everyone must be able to do it it’s just that people attach language to the abstract images when they learn how. So if you could somehow shut the voice up, the thoughts would still remain but it wouldn’t seem like ‘chatter’.

EBearhug · 04/05/2021 10:57

I've always wondered how artists can just draw/paint out of their heads. They must have amazing visualization.

I always assumed that, but then a couple of years ago, I saw something on TV or online about aphantasia and they interviewed somewhere was an artist on one of the more recent Disney feature films, I think Brave - and he was aphantasic. I still struggle to get my head round that, that you can draw imaginary scenes without "seeing" them.

I am hyperphantasic, so visualise things very easily. How I actually think depends partly on the subject. A lot of maths-y things are more visual than verbal, but other things are more verbal, like a conversation - though who I am having the conversation with will vary, again depending on subject. If I'm thinking about actual words, I can sort of read them behind my eyelids - and the course vary according to the language. Thoughts can also be quite auditory, different voices, or music or something. There's always a constant earworm, but what it is varies, and it's not always at the front of my mind and intrusive.

My thoughts are sort of multitrack, and I can usually bring something up if I need to focus on it, and background other bits, so things aren't usually intrusive unless I'm getting stressed to the point where I'm not coping well. I don't always focus on the right stuff mind you. Thinking about thinking is far more interesting than actual work, and I can spend a lot of time daydreaming.

I am going to do some actual work now, though.

CorianderBee · 04/05/2021 11:03

So I tried some mental gymnastics in my head last night and the only way to hear absolutely nothing in my head is to physically hold my breath. So can't keep it up long.

I can silence words if I think of other sounds like birdsong, classical music or dogs barking, but then it's a bit weird to just be thinking about barking

ErrolTheDragon · 04/05/2021 11:15

There's probably an 'elephant in the room' effect when you start to consciously think about thinking.

ofwarren · 04/05/2021 11:25

Just out of interest, are those of you who do not have an inner monologue extrovert?
I'm introverted and actually really enjoy sitting with my thoughts and visualisations. I can go anywhere in my mind and talk to anyone.
There may be no correlation at all but I just wondered.

Fairystory · 04/05/2021 12:10

I have a strong inner monologue and mind's eye. I was shocked to read a couple of years ago that other people don't. I think my late DH must have been like that as he was very bored if at home on his own when he was ill. He was very extrovert, while I am introvert.
I much prefer reading to TV or audio and find it easier to concentrate on reading.
It's only reading this thread that has made me realise why meditating is so difficult.

GenuineViolet · 04/05/2021 12:42

Just out of interest, are those of you who do not have an inner monologue extrovert?

I have no inner monologue and I'm introvert. I enjoy my own company. My head isn't empty though, when I'm alone, I have lots of thoughts but they're abstract. I don't need words to explain to myself what I'm thinking. I know what I'm thinking . Just not thinking it in words.

Mrsdarwin · 04/05/2021 13:23

@HalcyonSea I have an inner monologue but I also see visual images etc.

It’s like I’m talking to myself constantly. If I’m making a decision i will think do I need this, am I hungry, should I go park there? Etc.

I would probably say it’s like talking in front of a painting / visual image for me. Like I’m talking to myself 🤣

Mrsdarwin · 04/05/2021 13:25

@ofwarren I’m very extroverted and have a strong inner monologue and visual image. It would be interesting to know if there is a link

TheSandman · 04/05/2021 13:25

I've always wondered how artists can just draw/paint out of their heads. They must have amazing visualization. I remember my art teacher in school not being able to understand why although I could copy something I saw in front of me very well, I couldn't draw out of my head at all. I just can't visualize clearly enough - even something I see every single day

I draw - a lot. Comic strips mostly. I have a constant babbling inner monologue but it's purely verbal. When I draw something from 'inside me' as opposed to life drawing something in front of me - I have no concept at all of when it's going to look like at the end. It evolves, things just become obvious - it's like my conscious brain is bypassed and I'm watching someone else draw. "Hmmm this in interesting, I wonder where he's going with that... " Occasionally I'll make a suggestion but it's someone else in the driving seat.

Other times it's a very conscious laborious effort. "In the previous panel this character was there looking this way so this character in close up has to be there looking that way .... Cut away to the next scene but I need the word bubble up in that corner so the so people read the panels/words in the right order... so I have to put her facing away from the reader so that in the next panel etc etc. ...." It's a logistics problem sometimes. Like directing a movie.

I'll often act out poses to see what shape the body actually takes, or get my kids to assume a position for a couple of minutes while I make a quick note "aha! you can't see that elbow!" - and I have an old tablet taped to my drawing table to Image Search. Larry Hama, a profession comic book artist, once said "If you have internet access and know how to spell it, there's no excuse for drawing it wrong."

Drawing out of your head is possible . I can draw my characters with my eyes shut (almost) but often I'm just doing the same drawing as I've done many times before. Stopping doing that is a problem.

Ohcrapbags · 04/05/2021 13:27

I talk to myself in my head.

I daydream all the time too, I have whole other lives in my head.

I think it comes from being very isolated as a child/adolescent and as an adult aside from my husband and kids. I was literally on my own all the time growing up so I had to keep myself occupied in my head.

RagzReturnsRebooted · 04/05/2021 13:29

@allthatgrace

I don't have an inner-monologue and never realised that some people do. My thoughts are rapid, abstract and conceptual rather than verbal.

For example, if I am thinking that I'm hungry and want to start making dinner it takes the form of something like: concept of hunger+concept of dinner+concept of it being the evening/dinner time. After speaking to my family members they would have an inner-voice that actually says "I'm hungry, I think I'll go start dinner".

I have also always been confused about the idea of having an inner-critic that berates you. I've never heard an inner-voice say, for example, "nobody cares what you have to say, don't bother speaking, everything you say is stupid", instead I would just feel the sensation of shyness and wanting to stay quiet.

I can make myself have an inner-voice and I will use it occasionally, for example if I'm trying to remember a particular phrase or something but my default thinking is not an inner-monologue.

Which kind of thoughts do you have?

Are you my cat? This is how I imagined cats (and other animals) think. Just in concepts and not words. So cool!

TheSecondMrsAshwell · 04/05/2021 13:33

I have a faffing annoying internal monologue and, like some PPs, it is at its loudest at night. For example, I viewed a flat in March and went home to consider what I would offer. About 3am the following morning, I got up for the loo, settled back into bed and:

IM: Where are we putting the butcher's trolley?
Me: What?
IM: Where are we putting the butcher's trolley?"
Me: What do you mean, where are we putting the butcher's trolley?
IM: In the new flat. It won't go in the kitchen, there isn't enough room.
Me: You mean the flat I viewed today?
IM: Yeah.
Me: But I haven't even put in an offer.
IM: I know.
Me: So Why TF are you asking? I don't even know if it's going to be my flat yet.
IM: I think it would be perfect in the bathroom - you don't have a decent cupboard in there, you'll need somewhere to stash bogrolls, etc.
Me: Will you shut up and let me go back to sleep?!!
IM: Seriously, though, you should consider it. And while we're at it, are you going to get a telly for the kitchen? You should you know - be able to watch stuff while cooking.....

And on and on and on and on.

HalcyonSea · 04/05/2021 13:37

@OnSecondThoughts

My thoughts are I guess 99% accompanied by an internal verbal monologue. But thinking about it, I guess you are right, Halcyon, it IS limiting to think this way, and now I come to think of it, I do have thoughts/feelings that there are no words for, and which kind of manifest as colours, patterns, or something. I remember when living abroad and learning another language, it struck me that some sentences don't translate exactly to/from English, and that therefore the actual thoughts and feelings of people in that country must be slightly different because the words those thoughts are made of have a different nuance. Very strange.

I think that's the thing. Words are made as an approximation for thoughts. Thoughts are not made from words, it's the other way around! People thought long before language became complex. Babies think long before they learn language structure to express their thoughts. Yes, the point about single words in other languages that express a concept that is instantly recognisable in that culture but would take pages to capture accurately in other language demonstrates my issue with the limits of "thinking in verbal form" very clearly, I think.

HalcyonSea · 04/05/2021 13:42

It also occurs to me that thinking in this way would not only be limiting, but very slowed down. It often takes many words to express a concept. I suppose an analogy would be like the difference between reading a book and just absorbing the words and ideas, and how much slower it would be if you were to read it aloud and actually say each word which would take ten times longer.

HalcyonSea · 04/05/2021 13:45

@ErrolTheDragon

There's probably an 'elephant in the room' effect when you start to consciously think about thinking.

Indeed! Meta-thinking.

HalcyonSea · 04/05/2021 13:56

I think that's the thing. Words are made as an approximation for thoughts. Thoughts are not made from words, it's the other way around! People thought long before language became complex. Babies think long before they learn language structure to express their thoughts. Yes, the point about single words in other languages that express a concept that is instantly recognisable in that culture but would take pages to capture accurately in other language demonstrates my issue with the limits of "thinking in verbal form" very clearly, I think.

Unless you are the Babel fish I guess. And even then.... what about all of the possible languages not yet created?