Do you think being born and raised in your country of origin can be considered a privilege ?

[maggiecian]

Just that really.

@tttigress

Not sure what the difference is between an immigrant an an expat (other than branding).

I currently live in Switzerland, and I do think people who were born in Switzerland have had a privilege that I have not (mainly advantages around naturally speaking the language and having all their friends and family in the country).

However I am also in a fairly privileged position, do I probably shouldn't complain too much.

Expats are white ( usually British or American ). They're also usually quite well off. Think diplomats etc living in Hong Kong.

Immigrants are poor and not necessarily white ( can be white, but from poorer countries usually ) can also be EU immigrants from richer European countries though.

That's just how I feel the words are used. It's not fact.

It depends on the context. Many places it’s incredibly hard to emigrate to. If you were born there, you start off with immense privileges. But being an immigrant is hard. I emigrated from a relatively wealthy English speaking country to another relatively wealthy English speaking country. It took me 10 years and a solicitor and a lot of money even though my immigration case was really straightforward (married to a citizen and parent to dependents born in country who were citizens).

I don’t personally feel disadvantaged but that’s because I came with a good career and plenty of money and a straightforward immigration route. I wouldn’t have had as easy a time if I’d stayed in my home country, but I think I am quite lucky. I know lots of people who have not had it so easy (if 10 years of tenuous immigration status and lots of money spent is considered ‘easy’).

@tttigress in my mind expat= someone with money that's coming here because they fancy it and it will be a cool experience and they have a job lined up.
Immigrant= their life back home is hard and they're most likely poor. Coming here to improve economic outcomes or safety.
No idea if that's correct but that's the way I have always viewed it. I'm the second and there is a huge difference between me and what I perceive to be an expat.

I don't think expats are necessarily white.

@maggiecian

Yes I agree. But I meant more like- if you never know the feeling of being 'foreign' in your own country, because your roots are in the country you were born in ( both your parents were also born in the same country and grandparents etc).

Actually you do. I do. I emigrated over a decade ago and I still think bread roll costs 2p😂 Also the mentality is different.

Basically you end up being foreigner everywhere at certain point

Also I disagree with your ‘expat’ and ‘immigrant’ definitions. I’ve been both.

Expats are usually short term migrants, usually from wealthier to less wealthy countries, but mainly they don’t plan on staying beyond a jolly and a short ish term contract. I’ve done that too.

The term immigrant tends to be used for more long term immigration, less people on a short 2-3 year stint, and more people who are exploring long term settlement. I’m white and English speaking and certainly no one would describe me as an ‘expat’. In fact, they hardly consider me an immigrant at all given the amount of anti-immigrant ranting people seem to share with me thinking I might agree.

I always thought expat is short for expatriates / emigrants.
Like some people would say, example...
Someone in Slovakia talking about Peter. "Slovak emigrant, Peter Whatnot, currently living in London". Obviously people in London would say "Slovak immigrant, ..."

Expats are short/medium term. Since 2000 I personally knew about 100 foreigners working in China, of every race, and every continent, though yes about 70% white. What did they all have in common? Fast forward twenty years and not a single one is still in that country. After one year or five or ten or twenty years they all left. Hence, not immigrants - expats.

Ah. I always thought migrants are the short term/temporary one.

Well shame on my immigrant arse, having mess in these

The difference between expat and immigrant is duration of stay and whether you are seeking permanent residency.
I was an expat for 25 years: never intended to remain in any of the countries we lived in and our right to remain depended on dh’s job which was a temporary contract.
When I lived in China we had expats from India, US, South Korea, Australia, Japan etc in our community. Most were not white as we had a very large South Korean community.

Yes I do. Maybe not a huge privilege, but there is a privilege in it.

If the service is terrible in my home country, I complain and I'm taken seriously. It's assumed I have money perhaps. I felt less inclined to complain in the UK, even when I had reason to. I didn't want to be that foreigner complaining.

I was born and brought up in Dublin but emigrated to London in the 90s. In both locations I was a young, healthy, white employed woman with a good network of friends and even some relatives in London (which was lovely) but I was perceived by some in London to be less educated than I was. Repeatedly. ''So, the leaving cert, is that like gcse?. No. It's like A levels.'' Cue huge disbelief. For some reason. Why was it so unfathomable that we would have exams comparable to A levels?

(A colleague was so surprised I could reel off soliloquys from Shakespeare. He didn't think we did Shakespeare)

When I walk in to a shop in Dublin, the general assumption is that I have money and I have not once been accused of shop lifting in my home country.

Once, in Camden, a stall holder wrongly accused me of stealing from her stall and the police took her not me seriously. It was an horrible experience.

Once I took perfume back to boots at Liverpool street, I had picked it up from the display but when I got it home, it had NO scent! A fake. They just would not refund me and implied I was involved in the scam (that they were aware of).

These are small things I know. I'm aware as I type these things that they are minor! But I noticed them.

I think about emigrating to Spain though! So I know these things are minor. Or I'm toughening up.

I am raising my dc in an alternative country to the one they were born in.
I do think there are some risks in terms of disconnection but I also think there are clear benefits as well.
So no I don't regard being born and raised in one country a privilege.

What is country of origin?

No... I'm a first generation immigrant and my childhood was spent with horrible xenophobic abuse at school during the 70s and 80s.

It continued during my working years in the 90s and onwards. I don't get it now , apart from the odd" well obviously I don't mean you, but..."

I think it can go both ways. As an immigrant, I find that I no longer fit in in my home country, but there are certainly people here who can be dicks about my birth country. I don't really belong anywhere. That's a shame.

But it means my kids are dual citizens, and have travelled more than their peers. They've learned about the history and culture of both their countries, and I think their lives are richer for it.

@WhoWants2Know

I think it can go both ways. As an immigrant, I find that I no longer fit in in my home country, but there are certainly people here who can be dicks about my birth country. I don't really belong anywhere. That's a shame.

But it means my kids are dual citizens, and have travelled more than their peers. They've learned about the history and culture of both their countries, and I think their lives are richer for it.

Yes this often happens. Second generation immigrants don't even know the feeling of ' no longer fitting in ' either. They never fit into their origin country in the first place ( because they were not born there ) and they don't completely fit into their 'immigration' country because of their background.

It's definitely not all bad though, as some posters have said. It has benefits too.

@supermoonrising

Expats are short/medium term. Since 2000 I personally knew about 100 foreigners working in China, of every race, and every continent, though yes about 70% white. What did they all have in common? Fast forward twenty years and not a single one is still in that country. After one year or five or ten or twenty years they all left. Hence, not immigrants - expats.

Yes, but a lot of people might consider themselves short term and then... never leave. Either because it is never safe to (in the case of refugees for example), because they never save enough/achieve the right status, or because they set roots in the country - through marriage, through having children there, through your career. You go back "home" and it isnt your country anymore. So it is a state of mind more than anything, and when people change from one to another is completely individual. That of course, is different to how they are viewed by others, and different to how they are viewed by their own family.

I was born in one country, lived in 3 others (including the UK for the university years) and now reside in the country if birth of one of my parents. Contrary to the belief that you can only fit in in the country if your birth, I find I can slot into more than one country. I can flit between being British and Southern European, with all the nuances and mentality.

Plus I find that having grown up in different countries and continents has given me an international outlook that does help me relate to many nationalities. That, I consider a huge privilege (not to mention it has been beneficial to my career).

I can’t imagine only living in the same place as your parents and grandparents were born and brought up in, I would find that stifling and somewhat limiting. Horses for courses I suppose.

Yes it is a privilege. I have lived in four different countries and do not live in the country of my birth. I am aware that people perceive me as different to them. But there can also be disadvantages to living in just one country and I am grateful for my broader worldview. I worry that I may give the impression that I’m acting superior, but at the same time struggle to tolerate some of the local small-minded attitudes that I come across.

Yes, absolutely. My life, the opportunities available to me as a woman, and the conditions I live in have been better for being born in the UK compared to, say, Iran, Syria, Ethiopia (where I could well have died in the famine in the early 80s) or North Korea. I didn't earn it, anymore than I earned my white skin. It's pure luck, and a privilege.

Plus, for many of those raised in a different country to their birth, or those born in a different country to their parents there are practical advantages (as well as the outlook @NotFrozen mentioned). Often, but not always:

1. multilingual. Being fluent in multiple languages is a huge advantage
2. more than one passports if they qualify

3.economic- I know that the most obvious example is children whose parents are in well paid jobs that cause them to move overseas. But it is also a factor for children from other backgrounds as well - "economic migrants" by definition are moving to increase their economic standing and hopefully to give their children more opportunites. This is true whether the person is moving to be a doctor or a bus driver.

But there is also the "if you are a citizen of everywhere you are a citizen of nowhere" small minded nationalism of the type sported by Theresa May.

@NotFrozen

Yes it is a privilege. I have lived in four different countries and do not live in the country of my birth. I am aware that people perceive me as different to them. But there can also be disadvantages to living in just one country and I am grateful for my broader worldview. I worry that I may give the impression that I’m acting superior, but at the same time struggle to tolerate some of the local small-minded attitudes that I come across.

If you moved as a child, do you think your parents did the "right" thing when they moved you to (presumably) the UK? Or do you think, on balance life would have been better if they hadnt because of the disadvantages? I am not trying to be goading/prying - I have personal reasons to wonder about this...

I think so yes.

People often ask me where I’m originally from, and when I say Pakistan, there is a bit of a recoil at times. One colleague reacted with a ‘poor you, thank God you left the poverty’.

It does get tiring giving a potted history of my family origins.

I definitely feel some people treat me differently and some people feel uncomfortable around me. I think it was Lenny Henry who said ‘we’re the children of the commonwealth, we don’t belong anywhere.’