To think it's ridiculous that they wouldn't cut my DD's hair?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Took my kids (DD who is 8 and DS who is 5) to a new barbers down the road today for haircuts. I'd booked in 2 kids haircuts on their website, but when I got there I was told "We can only cut your sons hair as we don't do girl's hair". I said I only wanted a trim round the bottom of it, half an inch, really simple haircut and was told no.

The things is, my kids have the same hairstyle!! Both have shoulder length bobs, except DS has a fringe and DD doesn't. They cut DS's hair no problem and I sat wondering what it was about my DD's biology that made them unable to cut her hair in the same way as my son's.

AIBU to think this is quite ridiculous? Unless there's some genuinely good reason to do with the material difference between male hair and female hair? It reminds me of a colleague who once came back to the staff room ranting after getting her (very short, like a Sue Perkins hair cut) hair cut because although it was the exact same trim as the bloke in the chair next to her except he paid £8 and she paid £21!

[Chesneyhawkes1]

My hair is short. I pop into the barbers and get the back shaved all the time.

My hair dresser does the top as it's longer.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@EmeraldShamrock

having your hair cut is not a 'man's facility'
A barber shop is a mans space if you like they're not trained or insured for women's hair.

What is "woman's hair" - is it all the same style on every woman - and why is it so different to a man's?

I suspect barbers actually mean they cut short hair rather than 'men's hair' - in which case it isn't a man's facility but a short-haired-person's facility

[Jumpers268]

But within that if a women wanted the same haircut as a man then no they couldnt refuse. If she wanted a layered bob done by a barber than they could because they are not trained to do it.

Yay! I felt like I was losing my mind then 😂😂😂.

[EmeraldShamrock]

Now gender identity is a very sensitive matter he should have done it. I'm going to pee in a urinal one day, even it out.

[Jumpers268]

@EmeraldShamrock it is literally nothing to do with gender identity. If I wanted the same haircut as my son then surely the barber that does my son's hair could do mine, regardless of gender? But yes, pee in a urinal if you want.

[Roboticcarrot]

[quote EmeraldShamrock]Local barbers usually have an agreement with the local hairdressers.
It is traditionally men only but since we're all sharing space and blurring the lines they need to get with the time or be sued.
OP I hope you're and others in agreement are not against men using women's facilities too?
Can't have it both ways.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/transgender-man-awarded-5000-after-haircut-refusal-at-barbershop-37159596.html[/quote]
Ffs it's nothing the same if you're comparing it to same sex spaces such as changing rooms, toilets and prisons. If you mean men in hairdressers, then sure, why not if their hair is more suited to the skills a hairdresser has then what's the issue.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@EmeraldShamrock

Now gender identity is a very sensitive matter he should have done it. I'm going to pee in a urinal one day, even it out.

Well if you're a woman that's different because genera is is different between sexes- unlike scalps and hair.

Also hairdressers is hardly an 'intimate' place is it.

Like I say they clearly don't mean men's hair clearly they mean short-hair-traditionally-worn-by-men

[EmeraldShamrock]

What is "woman's hair" - is it all the same style on every woman - and why is it so different to a man's?
They are different trades with different training with some cross over, most trade people have a cross over but doesn't mean they're a professional or good at it.

[lms2017]

The Equality Act 2010 protects people from discrimination and it applies to businesses such as barbershops and salons. Equality law means that when providing goods and services a business must not discriminate against anyone on the grounds of gender. This also applies not only to male or female clients but also to individuals who have changed from one sex to another or who are transitioning.

What’s What
If a barbershop refuses to cut a woman’s hair simply because she is a woman, or charges a woman more than a man for exactly the same service, this is direct discrimination which is always unlawful. The terms of a barbershop’s lease cannot be used as a defence against discrimination, as that would make the terms of the lease unlawful.

For Everyone
The services you offer must be available to everyone, regardless of gender. However, a barbershop cannot be expected to offer a service to a woman if they don’t offer that service to men either, for example, a hair colour or a blow dry. If there are services the barbershop doesn’t provide to men, then refusing to offer them to female customers is not direct discrimination.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@EmeraldShamrock

What is "woman's hair" - is it all the same style on every woman - and why is it so different to a man's?
They are different trades with different training with some cross over, most trade people have a cross over but doesn't mean they're a professional or good at it.

That didn't answer my question at all

[WheeshtTheNoo]

There is two barbers in the shop I take my DS to. My DD gets a trim once in a blue moon but there is only one barber that will do it, if that one isn't in she can't get a trim.

[Daphnise]

There's no need for fuss, just book her in at a place doing female hair- the fist place has a perfect right to do only male hair.

Glad to hear your protests had no success.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

The services you offer must be available to everyone, regardless of gender. However, a barbershop cannot be expected to offer a service to a woman if they don’t offer that service to men either, for example, a hair colour or a blow dry. If there are services the barbershop doesn’t provide to men, then refusing to offer them to female customers is not direct discrimination.

This seems to make the most sense - ie it's not about sex but about if they can provide a service

[Fluffinell]

Possibly not qualified to do female hair. Different qualifications. That’s how it would affect insurance etc I imagine

[Londontown12]

@Jumpers268
I’d imagine it’s the qualifications that they hold if they mess your hair up barber or hairdresser they won’t have a leg to stand on but they shud have liability insurance so I don’t know 🤷‍♀️ but I wouldn’t attempt to do a skinfade , and anyone that does do something they can’t do and mess up it’s their reputation at stake as well !

[EmeraldShamrock]

@Hairobsessed123 Do you know the answer to Op's question as a professionally trained hairdresser?
What is "woman's hair" - is it all the same style on every woman - and why is it so different to a man's?

[stickygotstuck]

DM always has her hair cut at a barber's shop, has done for 30 years at least. Never an issue.

She got fed up of being charged three times the amount and come out with long, 'feminine' bits at the top. She likes it very short all over.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@Hairobsessed123 if your son who can do skin fades, had a woman walk in his salon asking for a skin fade, would he do it for her?

[Jumpers268]

@Hairobsessed123 thank you! I took my son to my hairdresser once and she said "no way would I know how to do that" haha and recommended the barbers up the road. And I YouTube'd some videos during lockdown on how to do his hair and my mind was blown and he was stuck with a grade 2 all over 😂😂😂.

[mimirouge]

Surely this has to be against the law and gender discrimination...

[Londontown12]

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop
Yes he would if that’s what she wanted !
@EmeraldShamrock
Woman’s styles are very different cutting techniques to how qualified barbers cut hair we are trained completely differently and it’s not just the hair it’s head shapes as well x

[EmeraldShamrock]

@Hairobsessed123 Thank you.

[LondonJax]

I think they'll be touting for business round our way. I went to the hairdressers last week and she was saying that the local barbers are, unfortunately, in real trouble.

Because people like me have learned to cut our men/boys hair during lockdown. I've invested in clippers and been cutting DH and DS's hair since the first lockdown. DS is really fussy about his hair and told me he doesn't want to go to the barbers anymore as I cut it perfectly well - it's just a short back and sides.

I've worked out we've saved £70 plus so far (and that includes buying the clippers). This year we'll save over £120.

I know four of DS friends also have their hair cut at home as do the dads (two of them cut their own hair with clippers as they wear it short) and the parents are getting good at it now. So I genuinely think they'll be advertising short hair cutting soon round here as they'll be out of business otherwise.

[worriedatthemoment]

Why do people have to cause a big deal about everything these days , just take your dd to a hairdresser is it really that big a deal.
People are always looming for issues , of course you can raise a complaint and get the barbers on trouble if you wish because they haven't just been closed down for months and lost enough already
But maybe the haircut isn't exactly the same and your dd has a slightly different style to them

[Rushhomeroad]

In my village there is one hairdressers and one barbers. The hairdressers refused to cut my daughter's hair short and told her she would look like a boy and would need earrings to help people know she was a girl (she was 7). I took her to town and got her hair cut short (as she wanted) and have been taking her to the barbers for three years now with no issues. They do assume she is a boy though, despite knowing her name, but as that doesn't bother us, I don't push the issue in case they declare they don't cut girls hair! She's 10 now though, so probably won't be long before they twig! I don't have a choice if the hairdressers refuse to cut girls hair short because of their own sexist stereotypes.