To think it's ridiculous that they wouldn't cut my DD's hair?

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

Took my kids (DD who is 8 and DS who is 5) to a new barbers down the road today for haircuts. I'd booked in 2 kids haircuts on their website, but when I got there I was told "We can only cut your sons hair as we don't do girl's hair". I said I only wanted a trim round the bottom of it, half an inch, really simple haircut and was told no.

The things is, my kids have the same hairstyle!! Both have shoulder length bobs, except DS has a fringe and DD doesn't. They cut DS's hair no problem and I sat wondering what it was about my DD's biology that made them unable to cut her hair in the same way as my son's.

AIBU to think this is quite ridiculous? Unless there's some genuinely good reason to do with the material difference between male hair and female hair? It reminds me of a colleague who once came back to the staff room ranting after getting her (very short, like a Sue Perkins hair cut) hair cut because although it was the exact same trim as the bloke in the chair next to her except he paid £8 and she paid £21!

[Yorkterrier]

I haven't read the full thread. But I imagine you'd all be up in arms if it was a woman's space and a man wanted something done in there.

[WorkplaceLlama]

For clarity on this, the barber had no justifiable objection to not cut your DD’s hair. The law is clear on this - even if it’s in the terms of the lease they cannot directly (or indirectly) discriminate on grounds of sex. What they can do is refuse because it’s not a service they offer, but as the cut was exactly the same as your DS’s, which they did do, they’d be on rocky grounds trying to prove it.

www.nhbf.co.uk/news-and-blogs/blog/cut-out-inequality-at-your-barbershop/#equality

[Dragon5000]

I am a female identifying as a female and have never pretended to not be a female. I have very short and shaved hair and go to a barbers because they are cheaper and do a better job as they are trained to deal with shaving heads and styles better than my hairdresser.

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

Womens yes, but not a small girl's short hair. Refusing to do the latter is just a bit silly. Especially when doing the small girl's brother's hair.

It's a bit different when you come to doing things like facials etc. I would only want to provide services to (biological) women. A hair cut? Meh.

Maybe they're thinking ahead to the time when the girl will be older - or at the age where most girls want a more interesting style than boys of the same age do. It would be very awkward if the girl and her brother go there over a number of years and then they suddenly reach a point where she is turned away but he is still welcome for life.

Also, maybe the barber is more comfortable cutting male customers' hair, just as you would be more comfortable giving facials to female customers, even though a man who shaved immediately before his appointment could protest and say "facial skin is facial skin".

I'm not saying who is right or wrong here - just pondering on their possible thinking. If you've got a really 'blokey' barber, who only wants to talk about football, he may find that female customers tend to want to talk about more interesting different things that conversely bore him to tears.

Again, not saying they are necessarily justified in doing so, but I can imagine that some people who much prefer the company of people of their own sex will deliberately choose an occupation that is solely/almost exclusively patronised by people of that sex, be it a barber or a beauty therapist or anything else.

[Isitsixoclockalready]

Seems daft given that you made it obvious that you didn't want anything complicated. Unless he's had a bad experience in the past with getting a complaint over a haircut.

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

If a barbershop refuses to cut a woman’s hair simply because she is a woman, or charges a woman more than a man for exactly the same service, this is direct discrimination which is always unlawful.

That's interesting, because I've seen loads of hairdressers/salons that do both sexes, but which have two different scales of charges. In fact, I don't personally recall seeing one that doesn't.

Of course, they don't say 'a woman will be charged £XXX' and 'a man will be charged £X', but they price it based on 'men's cut' or 'ladies's cut'. You don't need me to tell you which one is cheaper.

If you ask, they will usually say that women's styles are more complicated and take more time than men's styles - but whilst that may be true on average, it still doesn't explain what would happen if Sue Perkins and Neil Oliver walked in at the same time. Maybe they're using 'ladies's cut' and 'men's cut' as a shorthand for the usual requirements, but it would make more sense to leave sex out of it and have rising charges for say 'level 1 - shaven head', 'level 2 - buzz cut', 'level 3 - short back and sides' etc. They would find that almost all female customers would choose 'level 4' or higher and almost all men would choose level 3 or below; but it would be based on the level and difficulty of service you want, rather than what sex you happen to be.

I still very much think there are the two socially-driven factors at play, though:

1. Barbers often decline to cut women's hair as they don't want the pressure/fall-out they anticipate from women's more exacting demands and likely upset if it goes wrong;
2. Unisex places charge men less, because they simply won't pay the higher prices that many women will. Most women will happily pay £30, £40, £50 or more for what they consider an essential personal service, but if you told men that 'this is the standard price for a professional haircut', most of them would keel over and die in shock not think it worth that, withdraw from the ecosystem of having a professional do it altogether, buy some clippers from Argos and just ask their wife to give them a buzz cut every couple of months.

[Madamum18]

Stupid!

[poppycat10]

@SD1978

I don't have an issue with this, sorry. In the same way that I don't have an issue with someone providing female only services through their business, if you choose to run a male only service I'm ok with that. Barbers are usually and always have been to cut men's hair. I'd say the onus is on you to confirm if they cut women and young girls hair, not to assume they do.

Womens yes, but not a small girl's short hair. Refusing to do the latter is just a bit silly. Especially when doing the small girl's brother's hair.

It's a bit different when you come to doing things like facials etc. I would only want to provide services to (biological) women. A hair cut? Meh.

[GlomOfNit]

Oh, this is an old, old chestnut that I think women who want so-called 'masculine haircuts' have been banging on about for decades!

Personally I think it's utter bullshit. OBVIOUSLY there is no such thing as 'men's hair' and women's hair', it's all HAIR, but the social expectations of what it should look like play into it. I think some barbers are genuinely convinced that a woman who walks into a barbershop and asks for a masculine short back and sides will create hell if it doesn't look right afterwards, because she's a laydee.

I don't know about the insurance aspect but it seems deeply fishy to me - the actual legality of insurance that says you can cut hairs of one sex but not the other. Or that hairdressers enjoy some sort of protection that only they can cut women's hair. Anyway, it's clearly not universal: some barbers will and some won't. I used to pop into one of the 'traditional' barbers in our small town for a trim to my shoulder-length bob when it was a bit tatty but not wanting to spend the ££s at a laydee hairdresser, and they have a price list for longer hair and 'women's cuts' - cost about £18 for a trim (10 years ago!) which was about a third the price of the salon down the road.

On another note, I take DS (13) to a hairdressers that mostly does women and kids. He has luxuriant, thick hair with tricky waves and unexpected curls, and likes it longish (over the back of his collar). The other day, his cut took about 25 minutes (he has SO MUCH hair) which, incidentally, was the same length my own cut took later the same week (minus the blow-dry and primping). His cut cost £17, mine cost £65.

I think it's more a case that some barbershops like the all-male atmosphere and will do anything to preserve it for their male clients. Maybe it's something that Man Friday should look into?

[SoupDragon]

Really? Come on ladies, let’s all get to the local barbers and ask for a shave.

Except that isn't the same thing at all is it?

That said, some women do have facial hair due to hormone issues so why not.

[icelollycraving]

I wouldn’t be putting anything on Facebook either. Times are tough in service industries, they have their reasons for not cutting your ds’s hair.
Just don’t go back. I take Ds to a barber but sometimes do it myself. I’ve never seen a woman or girl in a barber’s chair.

[Oli001]

I'd shout them out on facebook - make them think twice - can you image if it were the other way round - your ds couldn't get his hair cut a the local hairdressers! Our barber cuts both my ds & dd, and her her is shorter than his!

[Speakuptomakeyourselfheard]

I think it's all bollocks really, and they're just scared that if they cut a woman's hair and mess it up there will be hell to pay because we women care a lot more about how we look than most blokes. Whereas if they mess up a mans cut, chances are they'd just say, oh well just cut it shorter, it'll grow. My dad always used to say that there's only 3 days between a good haircut and a bad one, and when you think about it, unless it's a super trendy barbers, most blokes just go for some version of a short back and sides. I'm sure there are plenty of us who have tried giving our men a haircut at home and got a bit clipper happy, but mostly from what I hear of these things, the blokes usually laugh about it. Couldn't see me laughing if my OH took too much off when he cut my hair!!

[FrankensteinIsTheMonster]

If I go to my local hairdresser's, say "inch off the top, #3 back and sides, tapered neck please" they'll give it a go, but I've to make an appointment or wait for "the girl who does clippers", and then it takes three times as long as it should, costs twice as much, and looks shit. Luckily there's a local barber's that sorts it for me in less than ten minutes, straight off the street. Though the even localer barber's "doesn't do women". Guess he doesn't want my money. His loss.

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

@Blacksheepcat

Ridiculous and unlawful.

“The Equality Act 2010 protects people from discrimination and it applies to businesses such as barbershops and salons. Equality law means that when providing goods and services a business must not discriminate against anyone on the grounds of gender. This also applies not only to male or female clients but also to individuals who have changed from one sex to another or who are transitioning.

If a barbershop refuses to cut a woman’s hair simply because she is a woman, or charges a woman more than a man for exactly the same service, this is direct discrimination which is always unlawful. The terms of a barbershop’s lease cannot be used as a defence against discrimination, as that would make the terms of the lease unlawful.”

Really? Come on ladies, let’s all get to the local barbers and ask for a shave.😁

[SD1978]

I don't have an issue with this, sorry. In the same way that I don't have an issue with someone providing female only services through their business, if you choose to run a male only service I'm ok with that. Barbers are usually and always have been to cut men's hair. I'd say the onus is on you to confirm if they cut women and young girls hair, not to assume they do.

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

My DD always go to Barbers for an undercut. Just an odd barber.

[Blacksheepcat]

Ridiculous and unlawful.

“The Equality Act 2010 protects people from discrimination and it applies to businesses such as barbershops and salons. Equality law means that when providing goods and services a business must not discriminate against anyone on the grounds of gender. This also applies not only to male or female clients but also to individuals who have changed from one sex to another or who are transitioning.



If a barbershop refuses to cut a woman’s hair simply because she is a woman, or charges a woman more than a man for exactly the same service, this is direct discrimination which is always unlawful. The terms of a barbershop’s lease cannot be used as a defence against discrimination, as that would make the terms of the lease unlawful.”

[SoupDragon]

Yes there is, because he didn’t want to. That’s good enough reason.

Except you aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex just because you want to.

[Hflo]

And leases that have a clause saying they can only cut a certain genders hair are illegal. And it has nothing to do with insurance either.

[Hflo]

OMG I cannot believe some of the comments on here it’s like living in the dark ages!

It’s not men’s hair or woman’s hair it’s Just hair !!!! It’s the type of cut that’s different that’s all! If you want a cut that a barber can do you go to the barbers being male or female shouldn’t even come into it! And vice versa. Seriously people it’s the 21st century!

If anyone male or female gets denied a service based on their gender they SHOULD make a fuss / report it as discrimination or we will never have equality!

[Frizzit24]

Legally a barber can't refuse to cut a woman's hair simply because she's a woman. Type it in Google. If they refuse on the grounds of gender they are breaking the Equality act 2010.

[FinnegansWhiskers]

YANBU. Our local barber won’t cut hair that belongs to a female either. Even when they just want a number 2 all over. Ridiculous! But God Help the hairdresser next door who refuses to cut a blokes hair!

[Retired65]

This happened to me a long time ago. Above the shop, it had a sign, men & children's, hairdressers. I took both my children to get a haircut, one a girl and the other a boy. My daughter had wet hair as I had just washed it ready to be cut. I was told they only cut men and boys hair. Luckily, there was a woman's hairdresser next door and the hairdresser went and asked if they could fit her in, which they could. I was a bit annoyed at the time and pointed out the sign.

[gmailconfusion2]

I used to go to a barbers for years for my hair cut, he did one of the best cuts i've ever had. He never complained I was female either!