To be shocked at the incompetence of the estate agent industry?!

[HayzCo]

We are expecting a baby very soon, so sold our flat and have decided to rent as we aren’t sure exactly where to buy next and we’re happy to sell chain free.

My husband started his own business last year and I’m currently not working, but we can put up the full cash of a 12 month contract. It’s like talking to a brick wall trying to get EAs to understand the benefit of making this offer to a landlord. It’s literally like talking to the “computer says no” character from Little Britain. They’re telling me an employed couple paying monthly is more attractive but can’t explain why.

I’m sorry if this offends any estate agents, I’ve written the subject partly to grab your attention, as I would genuinely like to understand how a couple that doesn’t quite meet the “standard form” criteria can secure a rental! Surely putting the money up front is more security for a landlord.

The problem is you won't pass the credit check so estate agents can't let the property on a failed credit check. It doesn't matter how good your credit score is you will fail affordability checks. This will also possibly apply to a mortgage company as well. So be aware you may not be able to buy when you do decide to buy again, standard is 3 years accounts.

@HayzCo

self employed isn’t same as unemployed and shouldn’t be seen as such should it?

Ha! I am self employed. 6 years and, until covid, had only just managed to get my credit rating back up to good again. I am a poor risk. My income varies. When I first started it was even more variable and relied on 2 other companies, one if who was also self employed.

I was more of a risk than someone unemployed as I had no regular income, no known back up, benefits etc.

You'll have to get your head round that and accept bit if you are to get any kind of credit.

As for letting agents, keep trying. Some are excruciatingly careful, others will discuss odd tenants with their landlords.

Do remember though that they aren't necessarily saying no because they are the absolute worst people on earth. The government has loaded a lot of additional legal responsibility on to landlords and agents. Some manage that well, others get caught by the small print and ever changing rules.

Just try other agents
Someone will have a landlord that is happy to take your circumstances into proper consideration.

This is really interesting OP. My friend works in lettings and at one stage, it looked like we would be in a similar position to you. I contacted her because we also have a pet and I was concerned as many LL’s don’t allow pets. Additionally, we would need a shorter term let, 6 months rather than 12 or more. She actually advised I offer the full term rent upfront as a lump sum and/or bigger deposit to cover pet damage etc. She said LL would like the guarantee of money upfront for a known period compared to potentially no money if the property doesn’t secure a tenant. So different advice from a lot of the replies on here!

Good luck with it all, I completely get your logic but it’s been interesting to see the other opinions on here.

I think you're gone now, OP but I do indeed look at individual circumstances. However, there is a tonne more government regulation to do with deposits, not being able to gain possession, etc. It's very highly regulated, even more so in Scotland, for law-abiding landlords. It's your dodgy landlords who benefit...as with their less rigid standard they then recoup that with criminal practices.

Yep! Dealt with the most useless, rude, idiot ever when handing back our rented house last year and told him so too. Thank fuck we're in military quarters now so we don't have to deal with them ...

The point about extra deposit for pets might need to be checked, as I think that's been stopped now.

I also let people have pets and never chuck anyone out. I'm fed up of all landlords being tarred with the same brush and I'm off out of business as my tenants leave because of the stigma, despite being qualified and a fit and proper person. Only issue is my tenants stay for many, many years....so I may be giving out advice for many years to come!

@HayzCo

self employed isn’t same as unemployed and shouldn’t be seen as such should it?

I think you're being unreasonable.

Self employed is a lot less secure than employed. They don't know there will be another contract after, is that so difficult to understand?

Would you as a landlord yourself rather rent out to two employed people or a couple with one unemployed and one self employed person? To me it's obvious.

They don't know your other half and don't know how much of a competent business man he is. Surely this is just common sense. Also, these things aren't decided by real estate agents to upset you, they're based on risk calculators.

Yes EA can be terrible but as a LL I wouldn’t be keen to have you because on paper, you aren’t a safe bet. My LL insurance small print also says something about taking on tenants who are working (I know it’s unfair) or that there aren’t long term financial concerns that their income could change.

@HayzCo

Genuine question here, why are you finding it hard to account for our situation other than to presume we are drug dealers or dodgy people? If you start your own business but need to move before you have 12 months of accounts? It seems this just doesn’t allow people access to the rental market. Very much regretting selling to rent now, given the incredible close mindedness to the varied situations people live, not least the literally millions of self employed people (who as a country we claim to wish well!)

It’s amazing to see three separate people jump to conclusion of cannabis farms! You have to laugh.

Don’t be daft.

No one here is saying that you are setting up a cannabis farm.
What they are saying is that this is often a reason that EAs won’t take lump sums.

Landlords, especially now in the current climate, want to take out rent protection insurance which they cannot do unless you pass referencing.

Self employed is a lot less secure than employed. They don't know there will be another contract after, is that so difficult to understand?

I'm a self employed person, and while my income can fluctuate, it's always something. Employed people, on the other hand, can easily have their income drop to zero - it's very much all or nothing.

I'm not really sure why employed people are considered so much less of a risk?

Estate Agents are essentially people who have no skills to do anything else that would earn this sort of money. Anyone can put on a suit and become an EA, with minimal effort and knowledge required about the subject matter. They are not qualified about the financial industry, legal side of things or on building structural matters. In the US for instance, you need to have qualifications to be an EA. When an EA starts talking, it’s best to start singing la la la in your head, until they stop.

I completely understand the frustration of not fitting in to the box marked ''ideal'' but I think it's incorrect that landlords have any sort of responsibility to consider those outside of the box. Sadly they don't.
When I was a lone parent (still a lone parent) and on lone parent allowance and rent allowance, so many times, I'd ring up and over the phone they liked the sound of me, but then when I showed up with a buggy, a lone parent and on benefits, they told me the property wasn't suitable for me. A few times I pushed back and I said I'll be the judge of that. But I never got anywhere. Landlords will do what's safest for them and estate agents represent the client who pays them. That's not you.

You have all of my sympathies though.

I think lots of people like some estate agents and many landlords don't understand how the world of work has changed and will continue to. If anything, this trend to self employment and home working will accelerate.

Keep searching a find a letting agent apposed to an EA. I left my H to go to rented and had so many refusals. I had been made redundant but secured a new post with double the money with a contract but the EAs all refused me because of my redundancy (I was between redundancy and starting my new role). I offered rent up front but it was a no each time. My H had never allowed my name on any utility bills so my credit was non existent.Eventually found a small, local letting agent - told them I would pay six months upfront. They rang the property owner and explained my circumstances and that I had a permanent contract due to start etc. He agreed a six month deposit up front with monthly rental payments after the first month. Two years later I'm still here. Still got six months deposit being held but it doesn't bother me as I'll get it back on vacating. I had to provide my bank statements for current and savings accounts which proved my solvent.

@ceilingsand

I think lots of people like some estate agents and many landlords don't understand how the world of work has changed and will continue to. If anything, this trend to self employment and home working will accelerate.

I think you'll find it's legislation that hasn't kept up. At the moment LLs are still yoked by covid restrictions and yet still have to keep up to date with the new legislation around electric checks etc.

With all the checks and measures a LL has to do, some on behalf of the government, there is often no time, room or head space for tenants that don't fit the government built shape!

Add the remaining insurance and mortgage restrictions and you sometimes end up with a very restricted list of what is acceptable.

Lobby the government. No individual agent or LL can do anything about it.

6 months deposit being held?

They should have returned that last year.

You're in a great place should anything go wrong!!!

Just offer to pay monthly like everyone else. And it is suspicious and a well known tactic of criminals wanting to operate cannabis farms in 3 bed semi’s in suburbia.
My parents neighbours got caught out in exactly this way. Thousands of pounds of damage and house out of action for months afterwards. Not worth the hassle

But the tenant signs a 12 month contract, so the landlord has absolutely no trouble evicting you at that point if you don’t pay

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

I understand why EAs might be wary but surely it's not that unusual for someone to sell their house while they look for a new one and therefore have the money in the bank.

You can't win. If you aren't proceedable they won't show you houses, and when you are proceedable, they won't let you rent while you wait. And obviously a lot of people only want short lets while they look for a house to buy.

Sigh.

it is suspicious and a well known tactic of criminals wanting to operate cannabis farms in 3 bed semi’s in suburbia

How does the way you pay your rent affect whether you have a cannabis farm or not? I either pay upfront or I pay monthly. Nobody has a rent book where the landlord comes round to collect their money anymore, you'd just have a standing order or direct debit set up. It makes no difference to your ability to conduct nefarious activities.

And it's easy to show where money came from if it's from a house sale.

@poppycat10

I understand why EAs might be wary but surely it's not that unusual for someone to sell their house while they look for a new one and therefore have the money in the bank.

You can't win. If you aren't proceedable they won't show you houses, and when you are proceedable, they won't let you rent while you wait. And obviously a lot of people only want short lets while they look for a house to buy.

Sigh.

But people who are in the process of buying a house usually have a stable income so don’t need to pay upfront because they fail the income requirements.

Its hardly money laundering if it's paid out of a bank account!

I paid a year upfront for a rental, it was more than £20K. It was just easier to pay upfront and we got a reduction in the rent as it was attractive to the landlord.

@fruitbrewhaha most money laundering is via bank accounts!

It’s not about money laundering. That’s not the point of paying cash upfront. It’s to get access to a house without being disturbed for long enough to set up a light/ irrigation/ humidity system with pipes and tubes and holes everywhere and for the plants to grow from seed to harvest. This takes a few months then gone. Leaving the mess and devastation and thousands of pounds of damage long before the rent runs out and anyone suspects anything. My parents neighbours fell for exactly this situation . 6 months rent up front while they happily lived overseas for the winter. No one knew or suspected anything until the police knocked one day.
Criminals long gone presumably to the next house miles away. Police said they love 3 bed semi’s as nice and quiet neighbourhoods and houses large enough to have thousands of plants all growing nicely.