To be shocked at the incompetence of the estate agent industry?!

[HayzCo]

We are expecting a baby very soon, so sold our flat and have decided to rent as we aren’t sure exactly where to buy next and we’re happy to sell chain free.

My husband started his own business last year and I’m currently not working, but we can put up the full cash of a 12 month contract. It’s like talking to a brick wall trying to get EAs to understand the benefit of making this offer to a landlord. It’s literally like talking to the “computer says no” character from Little Britain. They’re telling me an employed couple paying monthly is more attractive but can’t explain why.

I’m sorry if this offends any estate agents, I’ve written the subject partly to grab your attention, as I would genuinely like to understand how a couple that doesn’t quite meet the “standard form” criteria can secure a rental! Surely putting the money up front is more security for a landlord.

Not a LL here. But agree I wouldn't be interested in you as tenants if I was!

At the end of the 12 month period, you will legally be allowed to stay in the property, even if you don't pay anymore unless the LL goes through a very lengthy, costly and time-consuming process to evict you.

LLs want tenants who are staying for the long term with an ability to pay the rent in the long term, not just the first year.

Sorry I wasn’t clear in explaining why. Up front payers are more likely to engage in criminal activity but not always. More likely they’ve got something in their history that means they won’t pass the reference and credit checks so they will only get a place if they pay up front. I don’t want people who won’t pass in my flat - full stop. Also up front payers have form of sitting tight at the end of the upfront period while the LL has to pay running costs and eviction costs. The deposit won’t cover the amount. Has happened to a couple of friends of mine. Why on earth would I do that when I can take on people who pass the referencing and have form of paying and being honourable?

Meant sitting tight and not paying rent at the end of the upfront period!

But the tenant signs a 12 month contract, so the landlord has absolutely no trouble evicting you at that point if you don’t pay. If anything they’d be in a position to negotiate further upfront payments or further contractual agreements, which you can’t ask of more traditional tenants.

Why would someone who paid up front (bar being part of the soprano family) be anymore a risk to a LL of not paying the rolling contract thereafter? Again, I can’t help but think the position of most people here is to just see anyone not in regular paid employment as dodgy..

I can only give you my thoughts on our asset that I didn’t expect to have which means I’m risk adverse.

Your situation may be honest.

But so many upfront payers don’t pass the reference and credit checks. This means they have form for not paying at the end of the period. A LL is on the back foot legally getting people out of their property. Rights are with the tenant (because there are terrible LL out there) but it means it costs thousands to evict and some of the tenants who are evicted trash the place on the way out. Cost my friend £10k after they took an upfront payment from a person who did just this. Obviously they claimed to have a genuine reason why they couldn’t be referenced abs offered the money upfront. Turned out they pulled it twice before. Paying upfront and seeing how many free months they could get at the end before eviction. Hence they didn’t want the referencing because it would all show up.

Oh I think I’ve understood why you’re misunderstanding - you’ve written no trouble evicting. That is so untrue. It takes months. The LL gets no rent, pays property fees and eviction costs. It’s a nightmare. Bigger LL may take it on the chin but it would devastate my family.

There bit you have got wrong there is 'no trouble evitcting' at 12 months. Evicting is often costly and stressful for a LL.

Are you offering to have the credit checks and referencing as well as paying the 12 months upfront? That might help?

You can't kick a tenant out without spending a fortune in fees to evict. It's not always a simple case of you leave when your tenancy is up. Not all tenants are that honourable.

Because of dodgy LL, the rights are with tenants now. Because of dodgy tenants, LL are wary. It's more complicated than you realise

Watch Rouge landlords, nightmare tenants on Channel 5 to get some insight 🤣

I’ll probably leave this discussion here for my part, but hope it continues.. it poses interest questions beyond our situation.

For what it is worth, we are a very normal little family who, because of new baby arriving soon, needs a little more space but don’t know where to buy long term, so have decided to sell our home and rent for a while - I’m sure many many people are in this position.

We are actually very fortunate because through the sale of our property we can - without question - afford far more than 12 months rent even if we didn’t earn but thankfully also have income via a family-run albeit early stage business. All this is provable and available. We have excellent credit scores and years of bank statements to prove regular mortgage repayments.

And yet the default perspective of estate agents/ landlords (and mumsnetters!) to our enquiries so far is at best “why bother” and at worst think we must pose such a high risk of being criminals - to the point of not accepting upfront cash that (logically and rationally!) provides LL with full rental cover - not just the promise of it via some payslips.

This is something we have to accept and, indeed, this thread has been incredibly insightful in terms of how best to proceed. We will do our best to appear less like criminal masterminds in the future! We are fortunate - im sure we have options - but there will be so many families out there who have started legitimate businesses, need to move and find themselves being treated with a blanket suspicion/ lack of sense and are left with no options. Maybe you don’t feel any sympathy for this situation but forgive me for not having much for the landlord in these situations either.

To the landlords out there, yes you have to protect your investment but you are also responsible for providing a significant number of families in our society a place to call home. It would just be good if initial checks could account for more (v ordinary!) circumstances, and not force people to cut out the EA robot gatekeeper in the first place to find reasonable landlords - which I think in itself suggests the answer to the original subject of this post is YES!

Off topic, but are you sure you want to sell your flat? With you not working at the moment the chances of being able to buy again will be unlikely. Also property prices are rising so you might get priced out fast.

Ps) I totally accept I am naive to the reality of rental market, for landlords and tenants. It’s been a long time since we were in this position. Big life lesson ey!

Why did you ask the question if you were only interested in people who had the same opinions as you? Lol

You maybe very ordinary, but I imagine lots of dodgy tenants appear very ordinary too. Sorry you have to think outside the box on this one

No - totally regret it now! Really thought it gave us some more time to make life plans. Exchanged already.. hence the anxiety palpable in my messages

No it’s genuinely been useful to get other perspectives of landlords especially to see what they’re up against.. I just want to provide another perspective of the dodgy tenant narrative too.

Completely understand that. I'd feel the same way, especially being pregnant.

Difficult one for you. Just gave my perspective to help you know how it looks for a LL view point. One that is in a tiny position in rental terms.

No I don’t have sympathy for you as we will all have to sort our situations out and live within the rules/expectations/realities. Nor though do I expect anyone to have sympathy for me if I have a non paying tenant or when a tenant broke the Miele washing machine and claimed they didn’t or if the police are called because of domestic violence and I have to deal with a tiny baby in my house. It’s my risk and I have to deal.

Hope it works out.

You are looking at it from your own circumstances, the LA has seen and heard it all and battle weary, it’s also down o the landlord and more importantly the insurance company, many policies won’t care if you pay up front, they will require proof of income to cover the rent, insurance now due to COVID is very strict and will in the majority of cases only cover the landlord for gaps in rent if they have provided evidence of solvency. And 12 months up front is a red flag for money laundering.

I had dodgy tenants who finally left over Christmas owing 6 months rent and having done about £6000 worth of damage to the property, which was in a shocking state after they left. They play you to get out of their responsibilities and you can always tell, as they literally copy template emails off the Shelter website and places like that. They then fail to leave a forwarding address. It’s cost me £2500 in legal fees and tracing fees so far just to get them to leave (which they did just before eviction). All that having been said, I often rent to house hunters and if someone wanted to pay up front I would bite their hand off. People can lose their jobs overnight and being in employment at the point of rental means very little.

PS You could always imply something like your house purchase fell through hence the gap in selling and buying ;.) Not that I am recommending dishonesty, you understand.

Interesting re insurance and makes sense

OP, we were in a similar situation. We got round it by providing bank statements to show we had substantial savings and then by paying rent quarterly. Good luck.

The thing is that the law is very much on the side of the tenant. Which is probably exactly right because no one wants to see vulnerable families on the street, put there by unscrupulous LLs. However, it does make LLs particularly nervous. During CV for instance it's a minimum of seven to eight months to remove someone who's not being paying rent. Then there's probably no chance of getting the back rent back once they've left as you'd never track them down. Meanwhile the LLs have to spend out all the usual upkeep, including insurance, electricity and gas certification, boiler and central heating cover, EA fees etc (they are probably taken in advance from the initial month's rent but it means the LLs were paying out). Plus pay the legal costs for evicting the tenants.

Also the insurance against non-payment is invalidated if you haven't done the credit checks. And if someone is a rent defaulter they may well not be someone who looks after the property.

Now none of this is personal to you, of course. I'm sure you're lovely. But I'm also sure that EA's don't want to get the reputation of allowing poor tenants, so I imagine they're particularly risk averse. Sorry this leaves you in a jam.

@Tippexy

YANBU they really are the worst of society.

Really? The WORST of society, beneath thieves, child molesters and Daily Fail journos 🤣

OP I would suggest trying looking via OpenRent - it provides a much more direct interaction between you and the landlord. Saves time if you can just email them directly to ask if they'll consider XYZ rather than going through a third party i.e. estate agent.

I think landlords are being super cautious right now due to the expected economy downturn plus evictions now being a 6 month process rather than 2 months. Could you consider a serviced apartment as a stopgap, if you can't find anything nice that will accept you? That way you wouldn't be tied into X months contract, plus no utilities to pay. If you contact companies directly to discuss eg a 3 month stay you will usually get much better pricing than what you'll see on their websites on a per-night basis.