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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you do this for a friend?

45 replies

2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:06

Hi, one of my friends has asked me to be their civil service counter-signature. AIBU to be hesitant after reading this online:

Such a countersignatory is likely to have credentials that can be checked and would have something to lose in terms of career or reputation by wrongly countersigning a NOMS application.

I am a nurse. I thought it would just be a identity verification- but I couldn’t really vouch for this friend in a work environment. Would you still risk it? Has anyone else been a civil service counter signature- what do they ask of you exactly?

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Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:06

Obviously I don’t want to be the reason she doesn’t get the job so if I can help, I will

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GreyhoundG1rl · 30/04/2021 21:08

Are you recommending them or verifying who they are?

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:09

That’s the thing, I thought it was just verification but it seems to be a recommendation too. I could do this but it depends on exactly what they are asking

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picturesandpickles · 30/04/2021 21:10

What are you signing to say? If it is just that you have known them for a certain length of time, that would be fine. You can't be asked to vouch for somebody because anyone could do anything - you can only be asked to say what you genuinely know.

What they mean if you need to have a job you could lose if you lie - so if you have to have known someone for x years you can't just be paid to do it as you have something valuable to lose.

But if you don't want to you are within your rights to politely decline.

Unreasonabubble · 30/04/2021 21:12

No don't worry! You only have to confirm their identity and only if asked by the Department wanting to employ them, provide a personal reference.

Singlenotsingle · 30/04/2021 21:12

Surely you're just verifying that she's of good character as far as you know? Is she?

Gemma2019 · 30/04/2021 21:13

Yes I have done several times. They only contact you if the person is successful at interview and it's just basically to say you have known them personally for more than a year and they are who they say they are. That's all there was to it, unless it's changed in the last few years.

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:13

Sorry I realise how unclear I have been. The bold in my OP is taken from a PDF from her civil service employer’s website. I thought it was just me confirming her identity but it might be more than that?

Hence why I was wanting to know if anyone else has been a counter signatory to know exactly what it entails?

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Rae36 · 30/04/2021 21:14

What does the part above where you sign say? I'm sure I've done this for a friend and it was just confirming her identity, it didn't say anything about her character or abilities in work.
I'm a lawyer and could be in trouble if caught lying about something like this. I think that's what the part in bold means.

Rumplestrumpet · 30/04/2021 21:15

It's just about confirming they are who they say they are. They are not asking you to vouch for them in the sense "they are honest and trustworthy" and then you get into trouble if they pinch someone's milk from the office fridge.

As pictures says above, they want someone in a position of responsibility to do this because you are much less likely to lie, because it would come back to you.

It's like counter signing someone's passport application.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate as long as I was certain they are who they say they are

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:16

Thank you all!

Ah I think they may want me to be a personal reference then as she has been out of work for a while (sahm). Again I don’t know if I should personally vouch for her or not. I don’t know how she is at work.

Also would I have to provide A photocopy of my ID or my NMC registration?

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Gemma2019 · 30/04/2021 21:16

The bit in bold is just to say you are a reputable person and would have something to lose if you were complicit in a fraudulent application, such as someone applying in a fake name or pretending to be someone else.

SuperMonkeys · 30/04/2021 21:16

It's just an ID verification, they're just explaining why only some professions are able to do it.

Gemma2019 · 30/04/2021 21:18

It's nothing to do with knowing her at work, they want you to confirm you know her in a personal capacity, and they won't contact you unless she gets the job anyway.

Gemma2019 · 30/04/2021 21:20

Basically can you confirm this person is actually Jane Smith and have you known her personally as Jane Smith for more than 12 months. No reference or anything else.

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:21

I think she’s already got the job, provided her background checks (inc me being her countersignatory) are successful. So I would feel awful for declining.

Reading online it seems there is a personal reference aspect. Am I just signing to say she’s honest etc?

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Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:21

Sorry, for some applications they may ask the countersignatory for a personal reference

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Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:22

If it’s just a confirmation that I know her then that’s fine!

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WaltzingBetty · 30/04/2021 21:22

@2021healthissues
No you're simply verifying their identity if that's what it's asking for.

The part you've posted in bold simply relates to your position/qualifications abd the risks you might incur by fraudulently counter signing. You have credentials and a position/reputation that would be threatened by wrongly counter signing. That's basically what is says

This is necessary for all verification - same as passports etc. If you were in a position with nothing to lose there would be no value in your certification

Aren't principles of certification part of nurse training?

SnackSizeRaisin · 30/04/2021 21:24

If you tell the truth you have nothing to worry about. They are not going to ask what she's like at work as you are not being used for an employment reference. Just answer the questions honestly and if you don't know something just say so.

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:25

@WaltzingBetty I have said a few times that I am more concerned about the personal reference aspect. I can verify her identity.

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Penistoe · 30/04/2021 21:26

You are massively over thinking this. Even verifying character you are only asked to verify ‘as far as you know’. Plenty of psychopaths and criminals had people verifying their good character, never heard of a referee being hauled over the coals.

blobblob · 30/04/2021 21:30

Countersigning just means as others have said.

A reference is a whole other thing. What exactly does the text say where you're signing? You are the only one who can see the document you've been asked to sign. What does it actually say?

Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:33

Maybe I am. So I have only been asked by her today - I haven’t seen the actual form I need to sign yet. If anyone has, please let me know what it states wrt personal references? I would hate to accept them back out last minute after seeing the form.

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Original poster
2021healthissues · 30/04/2021 21:33

@Penistoe that made laugh !

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