To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

[quote Teateaandmoretea]@MiddlesexGirl sorry to hear you had a childhood in poverty.

My own experience of the 70s/80s was entirely different:

• a 4-bedroom house with 2 bathrooms, one with a shower, the use was unrestricted
• we had a telly always. My maternal gm had a black and white telly which was hard to watch snooker on but y’know.
• we only had one car when I was very young but that was largely because my dad was a lazy idiot who cba to drive. One he learnt age 40-odd we had 2.
• I got a ZX spectrum for Christmas once which cost £150 ish in 1985.
• my life was much the same as everyone else’s I knew at the time. Okay maybe my upbringing was privileged but it really was comparable materially you my own children.[/quote]

We most definitely were not in poverty. We were lower middle class. But expectations were different then.

@jumpbounce it’s up to you to set your own. People I know have massively different ideas - as long as you’re happy with what you have that’s all that matters.

But the idea that materialistic people are new is pure fantasy

I think you can lament the cost of living without wanting women to get back in the kitchen.

We can acknowledge that it makes things difficult for families who have no choice but to have a parent at home (common when a child has SN or disabilities and there’s no suitable childcare or full time school place), and still celebrate women’s equality and economic success, can’t we?

Your use of the word “cram” is interesting.
Do you actually want to bake with your kids? It’s OK not to, it’s OK not to be your mum. But if you want to do it, you’re not cramming it in. If you enjoy it, it’s relaxation time.

Sometimes, mindset is important. Whether you see baking with the kids as yet another task to tick off at the weekend, or simply spending time with them without it being a task.

@MiddlesexGirl I disagree totally. Expectations where I live were much the same as now.

Our experiences are clearly different

I don't think yabu, op. I feel it's a shame if someone wants to be a sahp, they can't due to finances. They should have the opportunity to if that's what they want.

My partner and I both work 4 days a week, with a different day off each. It's a good mix which works for us.

That doesn’t really help support women in their retirement does it?

My comment that children can wear hand me downs was in response to someone saying that new clothing for children was essential expenditure.

I was not suggesting second hand clothing as a pension fund for women. Obviously if you want a pension you will have to work for it, just like anything else. There hasn't been a time when women could get a pension in their own name without paying for it.

@MiddlesexGirl did you ever say how much your mum and dad paid for their house compared to their wages?

@SnackSizeRaisin well quite.

Sorry if I misunderstood your comment but a lot of people think that what you can afford short term is what matters.

No, I wanted mine to see an equal partnership. We share parenting, household tasks and the financial burden. I dont want them to think men have no choice but to work and women don’t have to and get provided for. I’d be very unhappy if DH didn’t want to work so wouldn’t expect to opt out either.

We spend so long educating children and telling them to aim for the stars but little point if they grow up thinking they don’t have to work anyway.

Perfect example a family we are friendly with who live beside us in a house they bought cheaper than ours. Dad working full time earning almost treble our entire household income and a mum constantly complaining about how she can't afford to give up her part time job and how lucky I am to be able to spend time with my kids. Before covid they were on holidays literally every single month, a city break here or there or an all inclusive family holiday, 2 brand new cars on the drive way every year so constant car finance. Their yearly holiday costs I would imagine are more than our household income for the year...she could sacrifice her income and still be able to afford at least one family holiday a year most probably. It's all about the lifestyle and keeping up with the Joneses.

According to the figures, the average UK home experienced a rise in value between 2008 and 2018, from £160,954 to £229,861.

That's just the last 10 years though. If you look back over the last 100 years it won't be anything like that. There will always be fluctuations.
In addition, most of that rise was probably in the south east. I don't think there's been anything like that round here.

I for one am very glad that my DH and I both work equal hours and share home and child care responsibilities equally too

Me too.

I think it depends where you live and what kind of lifestyle you want. I had a sahm but we had little extra money. Rarely new clothes and shoes - they were treats. No activities that cost money.

@Lowef

for those of you where you both work FT and are happy with this, don't you feel frazzled, aren't you knackered?! I dont have the energy or the mindset to be playing/ baking or whatever with the kids or even doing anything for myself even. I cant cram everything into a weekend - i just need to chill out and switch off too.

Life is hectic at times for sure but I wouldn't change it.

I do think people’s basic expectations are far higher these days and most would not be satisfied with the lifestyle and homes of many of the SAHP of the past.

If we want more, we need to work to pay for it.

It should always have been only one parent full-time. Either parent - mother or father.

I'm pretty sure I can predict how that would have gone .......

It's funny what OP wrote, because where I grew up...

every household, the adults all worked.

I hear so many English stories from my generation (born 1960s) of kids put outside at 8am with a packed lunch and not to come home before 5pm. I have no idea what their SAHMs did all day. My parent's mothers (1940s childhoods) officially didn't "work" but the grandmothers were always busy with housework or volunteering or socialising; they weren't home much at all. There was no mollycoddling.

My grandmothers' grandmothers ran farms & small businesses & large families.

Who am I to deny someone's fond memories of relaxed cooking or sewing lessons & freshly baked hot muffins, still not sure it was a childhood anybody in my family had ... ever.

Part of this is choice though. Take my neighbours, very nice 4 bed house, young couple (late 20s), two kids (under 4). Kids in Nursery/school/after school club. Always stressed, exhausted etc (complains she never sees her kids).
It could be argued (debated) that if they stuck to a smaller flat/house for a few more years she wouldn’t ‘need’ to work or pay horrendous childcare costs. ‘back in the day’, families started small, kids grew bigger, you moved up the housing ladder etc. Lots of my friends (and I) never had our own rooms until teen years.

@Miseryl Yes, exactly the same for me. I cherish my days off with toddler DS - we even did gardening together this week and I have been known to bake while he is napping - but I would hate to give up work.

I've got a first class degree and I like using my mind, and also I have always wanted to be financially stable and not rely on anyone else for my money, even DH who I love and trust more than anyone. Doing four days a week works brilliantly for us and the fact that we can both do it keeps it equal and means we both appreciate the work that goes into childcare and keeping the household ticking over.

Financially, losing 20% of our salaries but only paying for 3 days childcare a week is only a bit more expensive than doing full-time hours but paying for childcare full-time. I think the value is much more than financial, though, and even after DS starts school I want to have at least an afternoon off per week to do 3pm pick up.

@SnackSizeRaisin

According to the figures, the average UK home experienced a rise in value between 2008 and 2018, from £160,954 to £229,861.

That's just the last 10 years though. If you look back over the last 100 years it won't be anything like that. There will always be fluctuations.
In addition, most of that rise was probably in the south east. I don't think there's been anything like that round here.

I’ve actually just closed an article detailing house cost vs wages over the last 100 years, I’ll see if I can find it again.

It’s the average cost of houses in the UK. What difference does it make if it’s the last 10 years or 100 years though? Are you suggesting that people paid too much for luxuries in 1921 and found themselves unable to pay for their own house as a result?

Yep. Everyone has to work harder and be more qualified just to have the quality of life and particularly the home their antecedents had. ‘Growth’ seems a bit pointless - running faster to stand still.

Women had their independence forcibly removed. Had test lives forcibly restricted and limited. Suffered significant mental suffering as a result. And you think it's sad society has moved away from that?

Yes this. Do you really think all the women who spent their days baking and laundry were happy women? Maybe the children had a nice time, but at what cost? Especially when children who go to nursery also have happy and rich childhoods.

My mum stayed at home with us, but it made her bitter, insular and small-minded. I love my mum but would be the first to admit that she can be a very difficult person. Anything outside her immediate experience was "wrong" or stupid.

I was adamant that I wouldn't be a SAHM because I didn't want to end up in a tiny world like her. In the end, the choice was taken away from me because my alcoholic exH couldn't keep a job and I had to go back to work full time when my DD was 12 weeks.

So no, its not awful to have to go back to work.