To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

But I do hate that we live in a society that puts a lot of emphasis on materialism and not on family life.

I hate that choosing to work full time when you have children is considered materialistic and people assume you don't care about family life or have the time to participate fully in raising your children- it's absolute rubbish.

I didn't realise this thread was only for ppl in the UK @TheLastLotus

@DelBocaVista yes I do. What I'm saying is someone has to do the work. It's low paid or no paid work

@G5000

Freddyfuzzbear so you are arguing simultaneously that being a SAHM is what evolution and nature intended and how it's been thoughout the history, but we should also disregard the past, as we know better nowadays?

Haha! No.....I'm saying we should disregard a time when our culture and views towards children became totally fucked up and not at all conducive to the wellbeing of children.

I've never said being a SAHM is how it's been throughout history. I said mothers were with their small children at a time when we evolved. Why is it so hard to understand that we didn't evolve in the victoriana era?

Yes we should absolutely look at our developmental biology and psychology which formed at a time when surviving and thriving dictated what humans became. There's a reason children and parents find separation distressing .... There's a reason scientist's have found that children literally cannot develop into their full potential without a secure attachment to a primary care giver.

It's interesting how keen you are to dismiss all this , you know, fact....because, workhouses.

I don't understand this. Yeah maybe it would be nice to be a SAHM if you were independently wealthy...but I would hate to make myself financially dependent on my husband, it leaves you so vulnerable. Maybe I'm biased, my parents' marriage was unhappy and my mum drummed it into me to always have my own job and money. We would've been utterly screwed if my mum hadn't worked.

But if you really wanted to, you COULD live on one income, in most parts of the country. It might mean living in a 2 bed flat in a less desirable area, rather than a 3 bed house with a garden near Good Schools...not having a car, shopping 2nd hand, cheap holidays, basic phones, modest Christmas etc. But most people don't want that...which is fine, but it is a choice.

I don’t disagree OP, but I also think there could be a balance to be had. I have worked FT/part time/been a SAHM and currently, my 4 day a week, school hours, term time only job works perfectly for us as a family. However, these jobs are in very short supply!

@Germolenequeen

That's because a stay at home parent is generally not contributing to society. It's only of value to their own family. Nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent, but it's of no value to society in general

Except that they could be raising the doctor fire fighter police officer etc. etc. who might save your life one day 🙄

Is it requirement to be a SAHP to raise a doctor? What have two got to do with each other?

@Freddyfuzzbear

"well to do families handing over their newborns to wet nurses at a distance and only retrieving them once weaned and walking"

And this is being used by you as an argument that there is no benefit to having a SAHM? "Modern ideas about parenting and bonding" are based on scientific research into bonding, why these instincts exist and why they are beneficial. You're dismissing this and holding up quite a cruel and cold period in our history where children suffered as if that's more relevant than what we understand about our biology and psychology now.

In response to you making large, completely unverified claims about how ‘evolutionary biology’ demonstrates the benefits of being a SAHM. You seem very confused about whether we should learn from the past (mid20thc thought that mothers should stay at home with their children) or ignore it completely (18thc middle-class use of distant wet nurses, Ind Rev small children working in factories alongside their mothers) because ‘now we know better’.

[quote chocolatesweets]@DelBocaVista yes I do. What I'm saying is someone has to do the work. It's low paid or no paid work[/quote]
I don't understand what you mean here... who is doing the low paid work?

@Germolenequeen

That's because a stay at home parent is generally not contributing to society. It's only of value to their own family. Nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent, but it's of no value to society in general

Except that they could be raising the doctor fire fighter police officer etc. etc. who might save your life one day 🙄

People in those professions don't exclusively come from homes that had a SAHP though. You could have a job and raise a child who grows up to join the emergency services 🤷

Can't you do both? Not saying you need to if it's not your bag but I have a decently senior level role in London and live in the Home Counties. I go in three days a week and use my WFH day lunchtime for washing, admin, Fridays for play dates and crafts. We bake regularly, sew, grow vegetables, garden, build Lego together. No, I'm not there every day but the kids absolutely get to do these things and I don't go insane stuck at home every day. The kids do two clubs each a week. I don't feel unusual.

My sister's dh blames the situation on women. "You all wanted to go out working now you pay the price, you can't have it all ways."
Charming man.

Is it requirement to be a SAHP to raise a doctor? What have two got to do with each other?

They are performing the "job" of looking after and shaping that small person at that time in their life rather than working outside the home.

The teachers university professors and hospital staff etc. who will be teaching that person later on in life will be credited for the jobs they do.

SAHP are just not valued by society in general.

@tuttifritti

Can't you do both? Not saying you need to if it's not your bag but I have a decently senior level role in London and live in the Home Counties. I go in three days a week and use my WFH day lunchtime for washing, admin, Fridays for play dates and crafts. We bake regularly, sew, grow vegetables, garden, build Lego together. No, I'm not there every day but the kids absolutely get to do these things and I don't go insane stuck at home every day. The kids do two clubs each a week. I don't feel unusual.

Absolutely. I'm a university academic so have always worked flexibly with at least 2 days wfh.

Me and DH do all the things SAHP tell us we miss out on for working f/t / .....and by us I actually mean me as nobody cares if the dad works f/t.

Plus we get to do all this while living in a lovely village which we would struggle to live in on just one income.

It's really not as black and white as people think.

I said mothers were with their small children at a time when we evolved.

Mothers are mostly with their babies in today's Britain as well. But it's still unclear to me when in the "time when we evolved" was it normal for mothers to do nothing else but devote themselves to looking after their children.

They are performing the "job" of looking after and shaping that small person at that time in their life rather than working outside the home.

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

@seashells11

My sister's dh blames the situation on women. "You all wanted to go out working now you pay the price, you can't have it all ways." Charming man.

And she's still married to him????

I divorced my ex for having a similar attitude

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.
I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

@Germolenequeen

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.
I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

Yep, you go flounce.

I don't feel guilty being a working parent. I'm a shit SAHP. I own that. And I do value the child care I use. I'm in awe that anyone can enjoy spending day in day out with kids and very grateful that such people exist.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Do you know me personally? The nursery we used were bloody brilliant and shouted that from the rooftops at every opportunity- we still talk about how wonderful they were. We visit regularly too as we pass them as we walk to school.

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.

I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

I agree but you can put this point across without insulting those parents who choose to work by telling them they aren't raise their own children. It's not a race to the bottom.

@Germolenequeen

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.
I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

Being a SAHP is not a job. From someone who was a SAHP until DS started school.

I don't think the OP's post is actually true.
The median UK income is 30K. Meaning that your average Joe is likely to be earning at least this much. For a family of 4 outside London it's very possible to manage. Living frugally, no extras for the children etc.

But if both parents earn say 17K then you'll need their combined incomes.

Without any actual statistical data you can't claim that both parents needing to work is true for the majority of the population. That's the case if lower earners marry each other, but if you have one higher and one lower earner then the latter can easily afford to be a SAHP.

The truth is you probably need two working parents to be able to live comfortably, i.e. not scrimping and saving for every small thing, small luxuries like takeaway.

But there's never been a time where the MAJORITY of the population survived this comfortably on one income. Mothers at home made do by constantly mending old clothes, buying the cheapest cuts of meat etc etc.

So really OP's talking about a problem that doesn't exist.

Happy to be corrected with figures

@Germolenequeen

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.
I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

Agree. People twist themselves in knots trying to justify their situations.

@Germolenequeen

Erm..... all good parents do this. Not just those who choose to be a SAHP. It's pretty insulting to suggest only SAHP do this.

I'm not saying they do but someone has to look after yourself child when you are at work don't they? Do you value them?
Actually I know you don't because I'm a Nursery Nurse in a Crèche 🙄

Being a SAHP is a bloody job and should be recognised as such.
I'm going to hide this thread now because all of the defensive comments made by guilty parents are going to really fucking wind me up.

Actually @Germolenequeen - if you are right and being a SAHP is a job - like any other job not everyone will be suited to do it! Meaning that women who aren't, like myself, are better off working full-time and paying trained professionals like you :)

By claiming that being a SAHP is something that everyone can and should do it's your own profession that you're devaluing...

@Germolenequeen

Is it requirement to be a SAHP to raise a doctor? What have two got to do with each other?

They are performing the "job" of looking after and shaping that small person at that time in their life rather than working outside the home.

The teachers university professors and hospital staff etc. who will be teaching that person later on in life will be credited for the jobs they do.

SAHP are just not valued by society in general.

Yes, it’s those pre school years, given children go to school for the bulk of the day at 4, with a non working parent that determines the job role of their children do you really think a survey of doctors would show they all had an unemployed parent?