To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

We are skint most of the time but I much prefer being a full time mum than having an expensive mortgage and holiday abroad every year etc

I wonder what the children would prefer. Most as adults who missed out on many things as a child wanted those things rather than a parent who didn’t work in my friendship circle. You don’t get to go back and repeat childhood with all the experiences you’ve missed out on.

Maybe this is why you have the view because clearly your friendship circle is very materialistic if that is their view on their childhood that even as a child they would have preferred materialistic things. I haven't met an adult in my friend circle and many of the women work in professional careers who would say the same about their own childhood that they would have preferred the week they got to spend with mum on holiday twice a year rather than having mum collect them from school everyday if there had been a choice.

@dotdashdashdash

perhaps that should be if you aren't prepared to make sacrifices, don't have kids

I'm prepared to make plenty of sacrifices. My mental health isn't one of them (they already took my physical health).

I would imagine most people consider the impact children would have on their mental and physical health before having them and weigh up whether that sacrifice is one they are willing to make. Aside from unplanned obviously.

I grew up in the late 70’s / 80’s and both my parents worked from when I was 2yrs old. They didn’t have tax credits back then and it was necessarily to make ends meet. I’ve always been a working mum, I don’t see a problem with working for nice things in life, in fact isn’t that what life’s all about? I don’t think it’s sad at all. It’s not like parents work 24.7, you can still paint pots in the garden and I have been to all assembly's, plays etc

I think its bloody evil to be taking babies and toddlers to some childcare facility at 7 am in winter and picking them up at 6 pm.

I think evil is a bit much! But it’s certainly not a life I would want for myself or my DC.

@jumpbounce not necessarily materialistic things. Music lessons, dance etc are all expensive and can be hard to take up as an adult.
I grew up with 2 working parents (in a foreign country), by the time I was done with after school activities etc it was 3 p.m. Parents came home at 6.
Had my mother been at home all day it would have made absolutely zero difference to me as I'd have been immersed in my hobbies anyway.
I still had lots of quality time with my parents making dinner, chatting in the kitchen at weekends. We are very close.
FAR closer in fact than some children of SAHM's who have flown the coop and don't even call their mums once a week :)

jumpbounce

Honestly, I did consider the impact but what happened to me physically is like 1 in a 100,000 or something. If I'd known it would happen, or been more common I wouldn't have had children. It's irreversible and life changing. It wasn't helped by people saying "well DC is ok, that's all that matters" like I no longer mattered, my life was unimportant. If I'd known how severe my PND would be, I'd never have had children. DC2 was unplanned and almost aborted because of it all.

I had a lovely childhood with my stay at home mum but when I think back, I wonder if she was a bit bored and lonely? I remember when she went back to college when I was 10 and I thought it sounded so exciting, likewise when she started working the following year. It’s a really difficult balance.

@Lowef

for those of you where you both work FT and are happy with this, don't you feel frazzled, aren't you knackered?! I dont have the energy or the mindset to be playing/ baking or whatever with the kids or even doing anything for myself even. I cant cram everything into a weekend - i just need to chill out and switch off too.

Hahaa surely you must realise that some people are single parents who work full time and do all of the parenting/ house stuff. If it can all be done by one person, it isn't a full time job for two people to then still be "frazzled" by.

for those of you where you both work FT and are happy with this, don't you feel frazzled, aren't you knackered?! I dont have the energy or the mindset to be playing/ baking or whatever with the kids or even doing anything for myself even. I cant cram everything into a weekend - i just need to chill out and switch off too.

I find a day at home with both kids far more knackering. I find work energising, it's home life that sucks my energy. Work is something I do for me. I find childcare extremely tiring and hardwork.

@dotdashdashdash

jumpbounce

Honestly, I did consider the impact but what happened to me physically is like 1 in a 100,000 or something. If I'd known it would happen, or been more common I wouldn't have had children. It's irreversible and life changing. It wasn't helped by people saying "well DC is ok, that's all that matters" like I no longer mattered, my life was unimportant. If I'd known how severe my PND would be, I'd never have had children. DC2 was unplanned and almost aborted because of it all.

I also had complications in my second pregnancy that almost killed me, spent pretty much the entire pregnancy in hospital and was incredibly lucky to come out of there with DC. I was aware that these things do happen though no matter how rare and it is something that should be weighed up when planning to have children that the rare always has to be someone, possibly something that needs to be discussed a lot more in general so people are aware of the risks. I don't see how that correlates with not wanting to stay at home with DC though.

I loved having my Mum home all the time aswell. She did go back to work, but only when my youngest sibling was in school, and only full time when she went to secondary school. I only work 3 days a week, but in a stressful job. I would love to be a SAHM, and I know my daughter would be happier too.

I’ve never been the sort of person who gets frazzled TBH.
It takes an awful lot.
Now my DC are adults we often foster. And we both run our own businesses.
My DC are all very high energy too. Probably genetic.

jumpbounce because of the impact it had on my mental health. And everyone (family, friends, medical professionals) made me feel as though I didn't matter. That I was no longer a person. That DC was all that mattered now. To the point I almost walked out on DH and DC and attempted suicide. Going back to work gave me 'me' back. Made me realise I'm more than a mother, that I'm a person in my own right, my feelings and needs are important as well. And because of that I'm a better mother to my kids.

I wouldn't like to see women again being totally financially dependent on men but it seems to me that whereas at one time a couple could at least just about manage to have a decent home, food, clothing, warmth, etc, on one income, now that is less and less possible. So, whilst women have more independence in one sense, both women and men are now quite often on an eternal work treadmill that leaves them both exhausted and their children fitted in when time and energy allows.

My own feeling is that, although businesses may believe that in effect the longer hours achieved when men and women both work contribute to more success, in reality research has found that longer working hours do not contribute to higher productivity but more flexible and shorter working hours increase motivation, focus and output.

This does not mean women should devote themselves to their home and children at the expense of their careers but that working hours for men and women should be reduced and be more flexible. In the long run this would benefit businesses as employees would be less exhausted and stressed and more productive even though they work fewer hours. It would, I believe, also benefit society as a whole in that their would be fewer relationship breakdowns and better physical and mental health for all the family.

The assumption is that parents who both work invariably do so to pay for "extras" like meals out and holidays. That may well be the case for some, but for many two incomes are necessary in order to pay for the necessities of life - like ever increasing housing, travel and energy costs.

I grew up with a mum who worked full-time since I was 6 weeks. We are very close, and I have plenty of happy childhood memories - and no, they are not about the material things I had.

Both my parents worked when I was a kid in the early 80's, in fact the area I lived I only knew of 1 person who had a SAHM. We weren't on the breadline but we only ever had UK holidays, a very old car, I am certain my parents couldn't have made ends meet unless they were both working.

@dotdashdashdash

jumpbounce because of the impact it had on my mental health. And everyone (family, friends, medical professionals) made me feel as though I didn't matter. That I was no longer a person. That DC was all that mattered now. To the point I almost walked out on DH and DC and attempted suicide. Going back to work gave me 'me' back. Made me realise I'm more than a mother, that I'm a person in my own right, my feelings and needs are important as well. And because of that I'm a better mother to my kids.

That makes sense. Horrible that it happened as well, again more awareness needed and support to prevent experiences like your own and support does seem to be very uneven in that respect as I had a different experience to yourself during and after the pregnancy luckily as it seems it is just a postcode lottery and sometimes even different experiences with different staff within the same setting. Really all it takes is to have support especially if that comes from a medical professional as well.

I feel so sorry for the mums who, when they pick their kids up from nursery are told, 'he did this today etc. etc., if you cant afford to be a mum, don't have kids.
That was pretty unpleasant. Was there really any need for this?

I think yabu for not recognising that single parents don’t have the choice to be a SAHP unless they claim benefits or are independently wealthy.
So therefore I work full time and yes my children see less of me than my SAHP that I had.
However I cut my cloth accordingly and don’t have the extra room that I’d love nor expensive holidays and account for every penny so perhaps you should be grateful for having two salaries.

@ellyeth I totally agree with this. Working 'fulltime' shouldn't feel like the slog it currently does. It shouldn't feel like there is a choice between being there for your kids and working.
Most jobs could actually be performed very well within the 9-3 school day for example. I used to work 9-6 in a London office and I think people were productive for less than half of that time, Infact the last hour or two of the day people were often twiddling their thumbs waiting for 'the bell to go' to leave.
How sad is that? Sitting there doing absolutely nothing when they could be sitting down eating dinner with their family just to adhere o this 'full time' hours culture. It was also seen as a good thing to be there after hours which disadvantaged working parents.
I think the change towards home working will hopefully help people achieve a better balance.
I would far rather do the school run at 3 and then do a couple of hours work in the evening when my kids are in bed than miss seeing them every day after school for example.

I was at SAHM for quite a while. I was bored, lonely and bored a lot of the time. When I went back to work I was much happier. It depends on the person. The person who isn’t working is dependent on the other financially and it’s hard to have a sense of identity I think. That can easily lead to depression.

Didn’t mean to say bored twice!

I can imagine it's very sad to want to be a SAHP and genuinely not be able to.

All the families I know with a SAHP have made very significant sacrifices, mainly size of house & area but even then it may not be possible for lots of people.

I feel incredibly privileged that I had the choice to work or be a SAHM. It was a no brainer for me. I raised my own children (and, no. This isn't a dig at those who choose to be in paid employment or need to work outside the home). Yes - there were times when I was bored and frustrated, but I was sometimes bored and frustrated when I was a teacher, so the only difference was that I was paid to be be occasionally bored in my working life. But I wanted children and didn't want to outsource them to people who, however kind and well qualified, would never love them as much as I did. And I discovered something, too. If I was bored, I have the ability to change that. There's always something interesting to do, even with a toddler. But we're all different. I'm not judging anyone. Just saying that I was very fortunate and know it. Oh. And my children? They're adults. We get on well. And one of my daughters recently told me she wants her children to have the upbringing she had!

I do wonder if any peer reviewed research has been published on the correlation of child/ parent relationship and SAHP/ WOHP. I may take a look.

From this thread I don't think it's a factor.