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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

701 replies

Lowef · 30/04/2021 19:24

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

OP posts:

LakieLady · 01/05/2021 08:20

@Member589500

It’s not the details. It’s the house. Everything stems from where you live. As a civil servant in my 50s I have worked with people 20+years ago (men) who raised a family and afforded a normal family house on a single salary. Today? LOL

I agree.

There are huge swathes of the south, outside of London itself, where rent on a 3-bed house and council tax alone will swallow up the monthly net pay of someone on an average wage.

Pumperthepumper · 01/05/2021 08:21

[quote Scottishskifun]@Pumperthepumper oh and no where in my post did I say that early years professionals don't use their brains it's a skilled job. For me looking after my son at home is not the same environment or learning. I can manage about 2 activities before being exhausted!

Its like saying all parents are adequate teachers just look at home schooling over the pandemic...... Most parents bow down and thank teachers as soon as their child went back to school!
Some obviously do home school and are good at it it's the same thing for young children![/quote]
Your exact quote was:

personally I enjoy using my brain of the challenge of work.

...just like many others on this thread who have said childcare is a waste of their brain. But not a waste of the brains of the people you pay to do it.

Scottishskifun · 01/05/2021 08:22

@Pumperthepumper I suggest you read my post again as I clearly state this.
My SIL is an early years practitioner so I know what it entails. No where in my posts have I said that ELP don't use their brains.

You seem to be projecting some sort of chip on your shoulder in completely the wrong direction!

TheBitchOfTheVicar · 01/05/2021 08:25

@Gyoza

My mum was a SAHM for most of my childhood and teens, yet wasn’t emotionally available for me at all. Just being physically there for your children isn’t everything.

Exactly this. I am doing it the other way around

Scottishskifun · 01/05/2021 08:27

@Pumperthepumper completely true because I have a scientific background. For me using my brain and work is science related. Just like for a writer using their brain is about words and for a ELP using their brain is about child development activities and caring. Everyone has their own niche of what is a challenge in the working world be it from business, science, arts or childcare!

The parents who need the challenge of work don't necessarily have the same skill set with children as the childcare profession it's why it's a profession!

Pumperthepumper · 01/05/2021 08:28

[quote Scottishskifun]@Pumperthepumper I suggest you read my post again as I clearly state this.
My SIL is an early years practitioner so I know what it entails. No where in my posts have I said that ELP don't use their brains.

You seem to be projecting some sort of chip on your shoulder in completely the wrong direction![/quote]
I suggest you read mine, because that’s not what I said you said. You said you enjoy using your brain, which is why you’re not a SAHM. But the childcare you pay for, different story.

Pumperthepumper · 01/05/2021 08:30

[quote Scottishskifun]@Pumperthepumper completely true because I have a scientific background. For me using my brain and work is science related. Just like for a writer using their brain is about words and for a ELP using their brain is about child development activities and caring. Everyone has their own niche of what is a challenge in the working world be it from business, science, arts or childcare!

The parents who need the challenge of work don't necessarily have the same skill set with children as the childcare profession it's why it's a profession![/quote]
And yet, you ‘don’t know how SAHP do it’. Maybe they just switch their brains off.

Bythemillpond · 01/05/2021 08:38

Society does not value the stay at home parent

I have worked plenty of jobs which had even less to do with contributing to society.

Does that mean doing one of the many pointless jobs there are out there is contributing more to society than raising the next generation of adults.

I have spent my days literally crying with boredom sitting in a cubicle ticking calculations on a spread sheet. Or getting filling out of cabinets that no one used to check it had been filed correctly.

For these jobs I was paid enough to be able to afford a room in a shared flat and my bus fare to work. If I wanted to eat or pay the bills then I had to do another job.
Working does not necessarily equal contributing to society

Scottishskifun · 01/05/2021 08:40

@Pumperthepumper I don't know how SAHP do it no, some love it are complete naturals at it, find enjoyment and fulfilment in finding activities and setting them up, doing educational trips etc.
I am not one of these. I find the challenge of data modelling, analysis and scientific assessment fulfilling. But at no point do I say my job is for everyone or anyone who doesn't do exactly the same as me is stupid. Just like for me being a SAHP and 24/7 childcare isn't for me I find it stressful!

Like I say you seem to be projecting in the wrong direction!

Iceniii · 01/05/2021 08:43

I haven't read all the thread but I do think society needs a massive change, in a way people may not think off. Although I'm not sure how. Adjusting the working week, amount of hours considered full time, flexibility, proper wages, I don't know, but it won't be easy to implement.

Flexibile working is key, but it's how you integrate that into all jobs. For DH and I, we both WFH. We could pop into an office when needed. We can do school runs, cover illness, spend time with DD after school and set her off on an activity. Prepare dinner in advance etc. We do this and are still able to deliver very well at work because we are not frazzled.

I have friends who both work part time. That seems to work well. They don't go on the big holidays or live in a big house etc, but they have a nice happy life.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2021 08:44

@SnackSizeRaisin

Society does not value the stay at home parent.

So the children being raised in these homes are worthless then ? Not a single one ever went on to be a doctor, scientist, surgeon who saved countless lives ? Or a policeman, firefighter, paramedic ?

Not a single one ?

Did you forget to complain about paying for other peoples kids too ?

lavenderlou · 01/05/2021 08:45

No way after spending years in education to get a good degree would I want to sit at home all day baking muffins and darning socks. Although most of the SAHMs I know don't want to do that either. Pre-Covid many of them seemed to head straight to the gym as soon as the DC were in school.

Back in the days when being a SAHM was expected, many women were trapped in relationships because they were financially dependent on a man. I worked part-time until my youngest DC was 7 and am glad I had a couple of days a week at home with them, or able to pick them up from school once they started. I also feel extremely glad that I kept a foothold on my career and earnings potential and continued paying into my pension.

Yes, life is very hectic. I do feel frazzled, the house isn't quite as orderly as I would like and I feel guilty that my DC are in wraparound care every day, but I also think it's important to see both parents earning and contributing to household/parenting roles. I do agree with PP that greater flexibility in the workplace would be the ideal. It would be perfect if DH and I could work 4 days each, but I find getting part-time work (in my profession anyway) is actually harder now than when I had my DC ten years ago.

Pumperthepumper · 01/05/2021 08:48

[quote Scottishskifun]@Pumperthepumper I don't know how SAHP do it no, some love it are complete naturals at it, find enjoyment and fulfilment in finding activities and setting them up, doing educational trips etc.
I am not one of these. I find the challenge of data modelling, analysis and scientific assessment fulfilling. But at no point do I say my job is for everyone or anyone who doesn't do exactly the same as me is stupid. Just like for me being a SAHP and 24/7 childcare isn't for me I find it stressful!

Like I say you seem to be projecting in the wrong direction![/quote]
Except none of that is what you said in your original post.

BuyYourOwnBBQGlenda · 01/05/2021 08:49

Reading this makes me feel a slight pang of guilt as I work through choice. I tried staying home and found it isolating and depressing. I don't know if that's to do with societal narrative or me? My mum worked too. She had her own company, my granny gave me all of the things you mentioned, and my kids grandparents do for them now (baking, gardening, trips to country houses and museums, theatre etc).

Forestiere · 01/05/2021 08:52

Agree with the gist of what the op was saying. I'm a SAHM, my youngest is 13 now. I had a good career but when I got pregnant the last time I knew I wanted to be at home. When I had my DD(21) I had to go back to work full time when she was 3 months old and it was awful.

Sadly, things are so expensive now, particularly housing, that it's a necessity for both parents to work.

CirclesWithinCircles · 01/05/2021 08:53

I don't think it's sad. I rather enjoyed having a working mum and not having to hang around the house baking cakes, etc. I remember her being glad to get back to work. I also liked listening to her stories about the people at her work. Same with my dad. It dudnt stop either of them reading me a story before I went to sleep so I put YABU.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 01/05/2021 09:00

Paid for childcare and parenting are very different. It takes no skill to become a parent. Those in the childcare profession train and have to follow guidelines, provide education etc.

Not a single one ever went on to be a doctor, scientist, surgeon who saved countless lives ? Or a policeman, firefighter, paramedic

Yes some may but children tend to copy their role models so if their parent doesn’t work then they see that as the norm and are likely to continue it.

Some families may value a SAHP but I agree it’s not of benefit to society. If I wasn’t working I would be paying no tax and so not contributing.

DelBocaVista · 01/05/2021 09:02

Sadly, things are so expensive now, particularly housing, that it's a necessity for both parents to work.

It's also a choice for some people. I love my job and have never had any desire to stop working or go part time. My husband is the same ...... guess which one of us has endured negative comments and judgement for feeling like this??

name674398 · 01/05/2021 09:03

There is really no need to feel guilt. My kids are (late) primary school age now and go to very small amounts of childcare these days due to my flexibility and I see absolutely no "themes" across the kids who had SAHPs or whose parents worked, same when I reflect on me and my friends. I think, barring extreme situations, it's like BF vs FF or weaning seems like the biggest deal in the world at the time but down the road it reduces in significance. I'm not going to reel of the benefits because it sounds combative but there are numerous for the parent and child.

I for one had a very middle class grandmother who was socially expected to stay home for her 4 kids, I had it drilled into me that I was extremely lucky to live in a time where I could own my own choices and to ensure I utilised that. I didn't have to work, I chose to, it was the right thing for us.

Bythemillpond · 01/05/2021 09:10

I really enjoyed being a SAHM although I don’t think I was ever at home for that long

I would take dc out to places like the science museum etc. Or Legoland on a daily basis. Occasionally we would go to the seaside. Even when they were in school there never seemed to be that much time. (Around 4 hours between getting back from the school run and having to set off to collect them.

Having been to work in various roles I really can’t see the enjoyment of being trapped somewhere having to do something over and over again (even if it was something I enjoyed) That was what I found was so boring.
Give me a couple of toddlers to entertain any day. At least I could go anywhere and do anything and not have to conform to a time table

DelBocaVista · 01/05/2021 09:24

Please don't feel guilty. There is nothing to feel guilty for!

SuperCaliFragalistic · 01/05/2021 09:28

This is why part time working is so suitable for so many families. It's not always either/or.

gurglebelly · 01/05/2021 09:36

*Society does not value the stay at home parent.

That's because a stay at home parent is generally not contributing to society. It's only of value to their own family. Nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent, but it's of no value to society in general
So the children being raised in these homes are worthless then ? Not a single one ever went on to be a doctor, scientist, surgeon who saved countless lives ? Or a policeman, firefighter, paramedic ?

Not a single one ?*

I don't think anyone is saying that at all, and the reality is children don't grow up to undertake these roles because they had a SAHP, they would be just as likely to follow those career paths if they went to nursery/childminders etc. So no, it doesn't benefit society any differently than children of parents who go out to work.

The difference I guess is that you have one parent not paying any tax and therefore (unless the other is a particularly high earner) they are not putting as much into the pot as they would with two working parents. Plus there is value to society in using childcare as they also pay tax putting more in the pot

So while having a SAHP is a perfectly valid choice for the individual family, it is of value to their family alone

dottiedodah · 01/05/2021 09:39

My experience is the opposite ! DM worked "part time" 9 to 4 and an hour each way to travel as well. DGM looked after me as well as friends Mums ,my Auntie as well .I have been a SAHM for some time now.I have enjoyed days out /afternoons spent baking and so on .Am able to drive as well and always had dogs to walk! I think being at home suits some people more than others .I do agree that many women have been expected to follow Career paths and that is fine .However many seem to be stuck in dead end jobs as well .In the long term being reliant on someone financially is difficult .However how many women would be able to have their same lifestyle if they were single with DC?

ElevenBells · 01/05/2021 09:44

Good on your mum OP if she genuinely chose and enjoyed that lifestyle but I couldn’t think of anything worse.

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