Meltdown- is this not a tantrum?

[booksandnooks]

Inspired by a comment on another thread.
When I was a child and we would be naughty, scream, cry, you know that kind of stuff, my parents and anyone else would call it a meltdown rather than a tantrum as tantrum was a term reserved for toddlers.
However I have been noticing a lot of comments saying that meltdowns are only for sn children and NT children aren't allowed to be described as having meltdowns.

I switch between tantrum and meltdown and destroying mummies poor ears for my children and am wondering if I'm actually being completely insensitive and possibly down right offensive.

Can anyone shed any light? I am the mother of nt children and have had no dealing with sen or sn or anything like that.

I don’t like it when people say meltdown instead of tantrum because it feels like it it’s diminishing the SEN child’s experience. I feel it’s unfair to describe a meltdown as a tantrum so there needs to be a distinction. I’m not offended, I just find it unhelpful to use the two terms interchangeably because they describe different things

@IHaveBrilloHair

Autism wasn't known about years and years ago either. I didn't go to school with a single autistic child, and I'm only 43.

You did not go to school with a single autistic person because they were all in specialist schools. Autism goes as far back as Einstiene in fact they believe he was on the spectrum.

My NT DD used to have meltdowns from about 18 months until she was around 7. There was no way of calming her, she'd look straight through you as if you weren't there and we'd just have to ride it out. She (and NT DD) also had tantrums but they were nothing like a meltdown

I have one with asd, I think people often use meltdown to mean all sorts and I have no problem with it. The dictionary just describes it as 'a breakdown of self control' so that could apply pretty widely and certainly isn't reserved for use only by those with SN children.

My DD has had meltdowns since she was a tiny baby. She wasn't diagnosed with ASD until 8 but they were definitely still meltdowns without the diagnosis! I don't have any issue over people using the term. It's a useful term to describe a child beyond being able to control their emotions. NT children tend to grow out of them earlier.

I don't feel that only us parents of autistic children "get" to use the word meltdown, but I have seen that opinion expressed by others.

However it can feel very minimising when when used in the sense of "oh yes, my NT children have meltdowns all the time, I know exactly what you're going through".

I would consider a tantrum to be about anger and control, and I don’t think it’s age related. I’ve seen adults throw tantrums.

In toddlers there’s usually an element of boundary testing, and trying to process very strong emotions.

In my experience there can be another dimension with asd, where the person becomes overwhelmed to the point where they’re not functioning. That’s what I would call a meltdown.

Firmness and natural consequences work well with tantrums but a meltdown is a bit different. You have to reduce the sensory load before they can begin to cope with themselves.

The nearest non-sn equivalent I would give is feeling hangry, where your ability to self regulate is compromised by low blood sugar.

I don’t really take issue with what you call things op; my only issue is with idiots who think you can solve the problem with a smack.

@IHaveBrilloHair Im a similar age and I went to school with several people who, looking back now, had Sen and very likely autism. I have older family members who are almost certainly on the spectrum, and when my dm complains about my df I often recognise the same behaviours I’m dealing with in my ds.

It’s just recognised now but it’s not a new condition.

So as an adult with autism a meltdown Is like a volcanic eruption, it cant be controlled or stopped in anyway until it's over, my body and mind are completely over loaded and I just have to let it out . I cant be reasoned with and trying can just fuel the meltdown more. While as an adult I now know the signs that can lead to one and I can usually bring it back usually by withdrawing from any thing stimulation but I've often had an unexpected situation happen and I just meltdown because it's just too much.

Yes, that was the point I was making, looking back there were clearly autistic kids in my school, but they were just labelled the naughty kids.
It's sad, and the high functioning ASD kids which is my Dd wouldn't have been noticed at all.
This was a school on the outskirts of a small city known for its "posh", University.
FWIW, no one was gay either.
It's shocking to me now, though the provision in Dd's school was also shit, so I moved her to a better one.

My issue is with my sister parents who describe their child's screaming and thrashing as meltdowns, when the grandfather can stop the behaviour in seconds with a mild-mannered comment that the child will have to stay with them for good, as she clearly can't go on a plane if she behaves like that.
Mine is a personal perspective, obviously.

@IHaveBrilloHair

Autism wasn't known about years and years ago either. I didn't go to school with a single autistic child, and I'm only 43.

I would put money on it that you did.

Actually, I am around your age and autistic. I could easily have been in your class back in the 80s. I wasn't diagnosed until many years later.

a tantrum instantly stops when you give into it. A meltdown won't

This is pretty much our experience as parents of an autistic child. SN children do have tantrums too, not every screaming match is a meltdown. The fun is in telling the difference without actually giving in

Fairly decent explanation of the differences here autisticmama.com/tantrum-sensory-meltdown/

A Tantrum Stops if You Give In, a Sensory Meltdown Doesn’t.

A Tantrum is Bad Behavior, a Sensory Meltdown is Neurological.

"Toddlers and preschoolers throw temper tantrums because they’ve lost their temper.
They wanted something and were told no, so they are going to throw a fit.
Their friend took their toy, so they’re mad.
Tantrums are always about something they don’t like, that they want fixed.

A sensory meltdown is caused by neurology.
A child with sensory processing disorder or autism doesn’t choose to get overwhelmed.
Their brains are wired differently so that they interpret their senses differently than neurotypical people, so to them it is literally painful to endure certain situations.
Their body’s fight or flight system kicks in, and when fight wins we end up with a sensory meltdown."

@IHaveBrilloHair

Autism wasn't known about years and years ago either. I didn't go to school with a single autistic child, and I'm only 43.

I started teaching in specialist schools over 40 years ago. Our pupils were called Educationally Subnormal back then (which is absolutely awful, looking back). Autism was only beginning to be defined. Now, very many of those same children would be diagnosed with autism rather than just 'global delay' or whatever other meaningless tag was attached to them.

I would love to go back and do a much better job with those pupils. We simply didn't understand the disorder then. There are a lot of things I'd do very differently now that I have more understanding about the condition and the strategies that I've learned to use after decades in the field.

@EggysMom

a tantrum instantly stops when you give into it. A meltdown won't

This is pretty much our experience as parents of an autistic child. SN children do have tantrums too, not every screaming match is a meltdown. The fun is in telling the difference without actually giving in

Ha! As a retired teacher of autistic children, I know exactly what you mean! It's a skill to separate the two and know which you're dealing with!

A tantrum is when someone deliberately acts out to manipulate. In kids this could be screaming and thrashing.

A meltdown is when the brain loses control due to too much stimuli. This can also be in the form of thrashing and screaming

Typically a tantrum instantly stops when you give into it. A meltdown won't. The overload has happened and the person won't feel better until all that energy has been expressed. Even as simply as a kid with a sound sensory overload, the meltdown won't instantly stop and the kid go back to normal when the noise is stopped. But if your kid throws a tantrum because they want a lolly they will switch straight off and sit happily with a lolly

I couldn't have put it better myself.
It's also really important to make a distinction because when people confuse the two the children lose out.

@saraclara
You weren't to know.
I didn't have an inkling my Dd is autistic as I had no experience of HFA and I'd never heard of PDA.
You can only do the best based on what knowledge you have.

[quote IHaveBrilloHair]@saraclara
You weren't to know.
I didn't have an inkling my Dd is autistic as I had no experience of HFA and I'd never heard of PDA.
You can only do the best based on what knowledge you have.[/quote]
Thanks. That's kind of you to say. I think I did the best I could, but like everything, knowledge moves on, and I can't help but wonder how things would have worked out for them and their parents with more support and more useful strategies.

I hope that you and your DD are getting all the support that you need.

@Bogfrog

I have two ASD children and one in particular suffers with severe meltdowns. In my mind (and I’m not an authority), a meltdown is more where the child has no control over their emotions. My daughter becomes very violent when she melts down and I don’t feel she has conscious choice over that behaviour. It’s because she’s become overloaded by emotion or sensory stimulus et cetera.

I consider tantrums to be more of a strop because a child hasn’t got their own way.

However I wouldn’t be offended if a parent of a neurotypical child used the term meltdown provided they never minimise what my child experiences when they meltdown.

This is exactly how I feel. Although I would be a bit upset if someone said my autistic DC were having a 'tantrum' whether were in meltdown because in reality the two aren't really comparable. My DC have both tantrums (shouting that they want more of something when I've said no) and meltdowns (hours of soul destroying screaming, self injuring, violent outbursts because of a sensory issue for example).

Autism wasn't known about years and years ago either.
I didn't go to school with a single autistic child, and I'm only 43.

I’m 41 and there was an autistic boy in the year below me.

@Bogfrog

I have two ASD children and one in particular suffers with severe meltdowns. In my mind (and I’m not an authority), a meltdown is more where the child has no control over their emotions. My daughter becomes very violent when she melts down and I don’t feel she has conscious choice over that behaviour. It’s because she’s become overloaded by emotion or sensory stimulus et cetera.

I consider tantrums to be more of a strop because a child hasn’t got their own way.

However I wouldn’t be offended if a parent of a neurotypical child used the term meltdown provided they never minimise what my child experiences when they meltdown.

This

@RonniePickering

*Autism wasn't known about years and years ago either. I didn't go to school with a single autistic child, and I'm only 43.*

I’m 41 and there was an autistic boy in the year below me.

Autism was described by Kanner in 1943

Individuals with more severe autism were often hidden away in institutional care until the 1970's or at home sadly

My own son is 6 and has autism GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam, his paternal uncle (57) has mild cerebral palsy and autism and was put into a home when he was 10 (more FIL’s idea apparently).
My son is non verbal and I always have an awful feeling of dread that FIL (87) will suggest putting him in a home. I don’t know if I’d burst into tears or a fit of (quiet) rage 😬

@RonniePickering

My own son is 6 and has autism GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam, his paternal uncle (57) has mild cerebral palsy and autism and was put into a home when he was 10 (more FIL’s idea apparently). My son is non verbal and I always have an awful feeling of dread that FIL (87) will suggest putting him in a home. I don’t know if I’d burst into tears or a fit of (quiet) rage 😬

...

I know awful isn't it