Child maintenance where the RP is earning well?

[forinborin]

Several threads here recently on the child maintenance topics, and I noticed that the same argument is presented on many of them, by different posters - the RP gets benefits, so that should pay for the basic living costs. If the RP does not get benefits, it means they earn well and they can pay for all these costs without a contribution from the NRP. Everything NRP pays should be, effectively, gratefully received as a "top-up", but not expected / relied on.

So I wanted to ask the MN audience about a specific case of the above - do you think it is morally right for the RP who earns well (not wealthy - just bringing in a good professional wage) to still demand maintenance from the NRP? Even if it won't be used towards "essential" costs of childrearing. Most likely it will pay for activities, holidays, private healthcare - so optional extras.

I will admit I have a skin in the game, I am taking my ex to court over maintenance - he has means to pay (assets and capital), but no regular income for CMS purposes, so there's a nil assessment (he pays £1). I've been called unreasonable about this before, and maybe I am?

@TheKeatingFive

No it's a % irrespective of outgoings if you live in an area with high rent

Well then they’ll need to get creative. The idea that they should be let off the hook of providing for their own child is sickening,

Get creative?

Go on then give us some creative ideas.

Nope. More about getting what I'm owed from the last 10 years that he's paid fuck all whilst swanning around town on his brand new Harley and I've gone without food some days to make sure our kids are fed.

It's hypothetical anyway as I don't even play the lottery.

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

Nope. More about getting what I'm owed from the last 10 years that he's paid fuck all whilst swanning around town on his brand new Harley and I've gone without food some days to make sure our kids are fed.

It's hypothetical anyway as I don't even play the lottery.

I see. What your kids are owed. I mean, it would still punish them so I still wouldn't do it.

How would it punish them? And they aren't owed it. They haven't covered the shortfall in my income or gone without.

Go on then give us some creative ideas

Non traditional housing options, house shares, jobs with accommodation attached. In the longer term I would expect a NRP with very limited job prospects to skill up so that they can provide to a reasonable degree.

TrusttheGeneGenie getting creative is actually very easy.

Its just a case of priorities.
If you cant afford to pay for your child you certainly cant afford more children, or holidays, or nights in the pub.

RPs going without new clothes and haircuts and even dentist trips is suprisingly common, yet many NRPs seem to prioritise themselves and their wants and expect others to pay for their children.

The NRP should absolutely contribute to their child just because the RP is a higher earner means nothing

@TrustTheGeneGenie I'm sure most RPs on here could make a list a mile long detailing all the creative ways they make ends meet

WTAF

If it's friends that have said you're unreasonable for expecting the NRP to want to contribute to his child's upbringing, be it treats or whatever. You need new friends. If it's him. He's talking bollox & should be ashamed of himself.

YADNBU

[quote sampamsnan]@TrustTheGeneGenie I'm sure most RPs on here could make a list a mile long detailing all the creative ways they make ends meet [/quote]
Well maybe they should then so that all the shit dad's have some resources

They should still pay maintenance. As ex of mine was a NRP, both him and his ex were high earners. But he did pay maintenance and had a trust fund for his child so she was set up for life

@PheasantPlucker1

TrusttheGeneGenie getting creative is actually very easy.

Its just a case of priorities.
If you cant afford to pay for your child you certainly cant afford more children, or holidays, or nights in the pub.

RPs going without new clothes and haircuts and even dentist trips is suprisingly common, yet many NRPs seem to prioritise themselves and their wants and expect others to pay for their children.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Let's make another one.

Most nrps have to move out of the family home taking much less than 50% and start again. I bet that's soooooo super easy and they don't have to "get creative" at all.

I’m not even sure why this should be a question. You have a child you should pay for them regardless of the other parents set up.

And FYI I am the RP who earns a decent wage and gets NOTHING from the other parent. Even when he starts working one day, I’ll be expecting money despite me being able to fund a comfortable lifestyle for us.

@TrustTheGeneGenie that’s true - but while RP keeps family home they also have extra mouths to feed. While NRP can choose to not care knowing that RP picks up the slack.

At the end of the day - if someone’s a deadbeat NRP who couldn’t hold down a job while married expecting them to pay more than they were WHILE married is a bit of a lost cause.
Someone who clearly has money to be spending on other things however should 100% be prioritising kids. If they were married that money would be spent on the kids anyway ...

@TrustTheGeneGenie

"More about getting revenge on your ex then?"

Why do you think that making sure a NRP pays towards their own child/children's upbringing is revenge?

@PheasantPlucker1
if you read my original reply
"Personally if I was RP and good income and standard of living, kids well provided for and didn't need CM "

That answers your question 85% of min wage in a major city at best you'd be in shared accommodation mean the chance of NR parent have kids over night is low and there relationship would suffer .

Also there a world of difference between the NRP refusing to pay and not asking NRP to pay

The OP situation the child was provided for no problem . Some of the replies on here are on about totally different situations .

TrusttheGeneGenie it is a sweeping generalisation.

Some NRPs pay. Happily. My ex was a high earner, paid far more than the CMS rate and still paid for big purchases, willingly.

I had the kids while he worked silly hours, did a full time degree to retrain and worked part time.

Its not easy, having kids isnt. But if you do decide to have a child you have to support them.

Its a legal and moral obligation.

My DD’s dad has not paid maintenance in about ten years. I am a higher earner and he works in a shop and has two children from a subsequent relationship. When I did raise it, he was unpleasant and said that paying maintenance put them on the poverty line. He left me for OW so maybe he should have thought about how he would raise another family. He used to do things like say he could not afford to give DD dinner if he was paying. So yes, gave up on that one for DD’s sake.

If the RP refuses the 50/50 share they should not be able to claim maintenance

Sod what the children might want, eh? Or what the children have grown up with. And babies. They should forgo breastfeeding and the life long psychological importance of attachment for the sake of ‘fairness’.

Have you posted about this before?

Child maintenance is about supporting your child and only about that.

I earn nearly double what my ex does. I insist that he pays cms level maintenance. Hes a bit shit as a dad in lots of ways so I think it’s really important for the kids to know as they get older that he cared enough to support them even if the amount isn’t close to the cost of raising children.

@Bluntness100

Have you posted about this before?

Child maintenance is about supporting your child and only about that.

I have commented on other recent threads in the same spirit. I was surprised that mothers who said they don't claim benefits during to their own income being high enough were then told that they don't need the money as they have enough already, and everything dad provides should then be a voluntary top-up. But I haven't posted this question separately, no.

To clarify, my situation is not a multimillionaire/ bedsit one. I have a good income (which is also fluctuating quite a lot as usually working short-term contracts) - but it comes a mortgage, childcare costs etc, and the father can afford not to work for money for the rest of his life (I would not say independently wealthy, as it is not a very rich lifestyle he is going to have - but he made it quite clear that he will be focusing his priorities on himself now). He sees the children, but very occasionally, no regular schedule as such or overnights - he has moved quite far away too, and usually spends his free time traveling the world (outside of covid, of course).
I can afford the house, childcare, food and bills, and yes, some "unnecessary" extras like music lessons or private speech therapy - but cannot, for example, contribute to my pension any material amount, or start a university fund for the children. Or any material house improvements, or expensive dental treatment for myself.
I am just surprised that 1) there seems to be no legal avenue in the UK how I can ask him to contribute 2) many people think I am unreasonable for even expecting this as I am not starving.

Go on then give us some creative ideas

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Wow. So men ((because it is mainly men) shouldn’t have to work out how to support their kids, but the women left without maintenance should have to make the money magically stretch. And then when she asks on here what to do about the la ck of stretch, she’ll be told to get a better paid job or just do something, anything.

Creative ideas? I teach. Full time. I tutor. I exam mark. I write for an educational publishing company. I teach summer school. In fact, I created a summer school so I had some additional income. I do surveys. I do some work for Appen. Why is doing all of that my responsibility whilst my poor ex gets to live on his £100k plus income and plead poverty? Sure, I have ‘enough’ money but on what basis should I have had to all that whilst he does nothing?

People like you are a massive part of the problem and are the reason why children grow up in poverty. Absolutely vile.

@EnoughnowIthink

Go on then give us some creative ideas

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Wow. So men ((because it is mainly men) shouldn’t have to work out how to support their kids, but the women left without maintenance should have to make the money magically stretch. And then when she asks on here what to do about the la ck of stretch, she’ll be told to get a better paid job or just do something, anything.

Creative ideas? I teach. Full time. I tutor. I exam mark. I write for an educational publishing company. I teach summer school. In fact, I created a summer school so I had some additional income. I do surveys. I do some work for Appen. Why is doing all of that my responsibility whilst my poor ex gets to live on his £100k plus income and plead poverty? Sure, I have ‘enough’ money but on what basis should I have had to all that whilst he does nothing?

People like you are a massive part of the problem and are the reason why children grow up in poverty. Absolutely vile.

I was watching a live US police show the other day and they were called out to something (I missed what) and while there they discovered the woman had a civil warrant out for none payment of child support. So they arrested her to take to the court. And I think they said she would have to pay or could go to jail for 3 years.

Now, I'm not saying the US system is ideal - this lady clearly had some issues and a jail sentence likely isn't the best solution for her. But seeing child support taken seriously was compared with lots of the stories from this country.