...to not want to visit PILs?

[VaxDilemma]

MIL and PIL believe that covid has been massively exaggerated, didn't go for their vaccinations and attended the London protests at the weekend. They are in their early seventies and have health issues - MIL has had two heart attacks and PIL is overweight. MIL suffers from anxiety and depression, and has panic attacks if her views on covid are challenged in any way.

I only found out yesterday that they haven't had their vaccinations. I am now reluctant to take DD (almost a year old) to see them, due to the risk she poses to them from being at nursery and the risk they pose to DD/us by being at the protests along with thousands of unmasked people.

However, I am extremely worried about the impact of not seeing DD on MIL's mental health. She'll take it very badly.

My gut instinct is to keep my child safe. But I don't want to hurt MIL. AIBU to stop visiting?

I honestly don't know what to do

Vaccines don't stop you getting covid/passing it on. However I'd give it two weeks as they were in protests and I'd imagine a lot of idiots people were there mixing too.

YANBU if they went to the protests- thousands of people not following Covid restrictions etc. It’s their right to not be vaccinated, it’s your right not to see them. Just explain why you don’t want to see them, in kind terms. They would feel terrible if they passed anything on to you. As a grandparent myself, there is no way I would have attended that protest if I was seeing my DGC soon after. My absolute priority would be to keep them safe and be able to see them and hug them without risk.

I say thousands - I may be guilty of

Exaggerating. Whoops posted too soon - it was perhaps hundreds

@acceptableinthe80sx

Vaccines don't stop you getting covid/passing it on. However I'd give it two weeks as they were in protests and I'd imagine a lot of idiots people were there mixing too.

No they do- they lower your chance of both getting it and passing it on quite significantly

What they do is up to them, but importantly, what you do is up to you. They don’t have to agree with you, but you don’t have to fall in with their views. If they’re not keeping to rules and doing things you’re not comfortable with, don’t see them. You’re not responsible for their well being.

I would personally only see them outside which is simpler and fits with the rules.

Gets panic attacks if her views on covid are challenged sounds like complete manipulative bollocks. I wouldn’t see them unless it was distant and outdoors.

@acceptableinthe80sx if they'd had their vaccines, they are likely to become less severely ill with covid, so we/DD pose less of a risk to them should we be asymptomatic and pass it to them (we have a certain level of exposure due to DD being at nursery).

@acceptableinthe80sx

Vaccines don't stop you getting covid/passing it on. However I'd give it two weeks as they were in protests and I'd imagine a lot of idiots people were there mixing too.

There is ever growing evidence that vaccines do both of those things.

I wouldn’t take mine to visit until a period of time after such a large gathering

I'm thinking the best solution is to wait two weeks and then do an outdoors visit.

Which will be difficult as they'll ridicule me/us if we insist on taking precautions.

I'm more worried now, though, as if they're attending protests are they being reckless in other ways?

I hate this

Stop being manipulated by MIL.

If they choose to do stupid things (like go to unmasked protests & refuse vaccinations/ they can look after their own mental health).

If they were that bothered about seeing you all they'd act more sensibly.

As for panic attacks if you disagree with her -give me strength!

I certainly wouldn't be going near them for at least 2 weeks after the protest happened. Let her off with her panic attack - it won't be you who causes it. It will be as a result of her stupidity in going to a protest, gathering with god knows how many unmasked strangers. Don't feel bad for keeping yourselves safe and don't feel bad for telling her why she won't be seeing you for a couple of weeks at least. I wouldn't be meeting them indoors anytime soon either. Wait until you and Dh are vaccinated in order to protect yourselves from them.

If they can't be bothered to face facts about covid and get vaccinated then that's their look out. It won't be your fault if they catch it and end up on a ventilator.

Which will be difficult as they'll ridicule me/us if we insist on taking precautions.

They make their choices and you make yours. Don’t engage.

I wouldn't be bothered about them not having their vaccination. That is their choice.

I would be bothered about them attending a massive rally because that would put your child and by extension, you at risk. They are statistically more likely to have worse effects than you or your child based on their age.

I would tell them I'd see them in a fortnight because I didn't want the risk of them passing anything to me when they've been in a crowded situation. Other than that, I think you're unreasonable to not let them see your daughter.

It won't be your fault if they catch it and end up on a ventilator

Nobody’s ending up on a ventilator any more. There are vast swathes of the country where there hasn’t been a single case of covid for weeks now.

The biggest risk is to the unvaccinated (and bonkers) grandparents, they’ve assessed their risk, decided not to be inoculated and so you have no need to concern yourself about them. They’ve made their bed. If you infect them, tough luck. Your daughter is at greater risk from going to nursery than seeing them.

I feel that with people like your PIL you shouldn't worry about any risk you pose to them.

They have the information and as adults have made their decisions about the situation. They cannot now blame you if they get sick.

MIL is playing you with her “panic attacks” just because you don’t agree with her. And you don’t owe her visits from your dd. Go with your instincts.

I don't think YABU to not see them given what they've been doing.

These are your ILs. What does DH think? Would he support you if you said you wouldn't take DD?

If they don’t care about their physical health, why would you care about their mental health?

Fuck them. They're old enough to have learned that actions have consequences and their decision to take covid lightly will stop them from seeing their grandchild.

"MIL has had two heart attacks and PIL is overweight. MIL suffers from anxiety and depression, and has panic attacks if her views on covid are challenged in any way. ... However, I am extremely worried about the impact of not seeing DD on MIL's mental health. She'll take it very badly."

Frankly, MIL sounds like a complete pain in the arse. Panic attacks should anyone challenge her views? My arse, that's sheer manipulation! 'She'll take it very badly' - manipulation again!

No, your PIL should have learned about consequences by now. Although I'm not sure I'd give a shit about passing anything to them (because after all, it's been exaggerated) I would care about them passing anything to my daughter. And since they were in a crowd of non-mask-wearing non-social-distancing likeminded people. there's a fair chance they could. People who attended that demo are unlikely to be mask-wearing social-distancers any other day either. So, I would not be taking my daughter to see them, and if MIL had an entirely-theatrical-and-artificial panic attack for my benefit, so be it.

Which will be difficult as they'll ridicule me/us if we insist on taking precautions.

They don’t sound very nice...

They are stupid, selfish adults who decided to participate in protests knowing they have health conditions. Why would you put their feelings over the safety of your dd. It should not even be a dilemma in your mind. Can you not see how their 'feelings' are used to manipulate you. Wait till you feel comfortable enough then visit them.

”MIL suffers from anxiety and depression, and has panic attacks if her views on covid are challenged in any way.”

Panic attacks my arse, she’s a manipulative bawbag. I’d not bother visiting those dickheads for that reason alone and I wouldn’t feel guilty about it. But if you do decide to go with your plan of waiting 2 weeks and only meeting outside and they ridicule you for it, I’d leave not visit again.

They're toxic.

Tell them they can see the GC when they've had the vaccine. Your MIL's Cluster B personality disorder is messing with her priorities (my MIL is also prone to dramatic histrionics when challenged).

@VaxDilemma

I'm thinking the best solution is to wait two weeks and then do an outdoors visit.

Which will be difficult as they'll ridicule me/us if we insist on taking precautions.

I'm more worried now, though, as if they're attending protests are they being reckless in other ways?

I hate this

This seems sensible. Wait two weeks since the protest then visit.

Deal with them ridiculing your choice as you would if they ridiculed you in any other way. Leave and tell them you’re not willing to be treated badly.

I wouldn’t be concerned to the risk to your daughter unless she has a specific condition. As I expect she’s more likely to catch it at school/shops than visiting two elderly people (assuming there not regularly at protests/large events).
At the end of the day the risk to themselves is on them. If they choose to not have the vaccine they will have to take the consequences should they get ill.