Do you say "An hotel"?

[Nighthogs]

Apparently this is correct, but the only time I've ever heard it used in this way is when it's said in a cockney accent (ie. "An 'otel"). When I say the word "hotel", the H isn't silent, so putting the word "an" before it just seems... Odd. I have an assuming south east accent, by the way.

Curious what everyone out there does!

YABU - I say "An hotel"
YANBU - I say "A hotel"

PS prize for most boring thread ever in 3...2...1...

Surely it's only correct if you say "otel" which virtually no one does these days because it sounds very affected.

My Dad does, and my Mum still gets irks 50 years on. Evidently you can take a man out of Yorkshire but never Yorkshire out of a man.

My father is in the "an 'otel" camp, as was his mother. My grandmother was quite Hyacinth Bucket, so I always assumed it was one of those non-U sorts of things (she would also say serviette, settee, and sweet for a pudding).

An otel but frankly I was brought up working class on a diet of The Times, R4 incl Test Match Special with Jonners, reading Charles Kingsley The Heroes and Water Babies (fgs)

If the word starts with a vowel or a vowel sound as PPs have said so I would say "he's an heir" but I wouldn't say "book an hotel". That's just wrong

I'm a bit long in the tooth, but was taught that words, beginning with 'h' were preceded by 'an' and not 'a.'
It's a throwback to when posh folk spoke french ( hundreds of years ago.)
The 'h' was not pronounced.
So , posh folk would say 'an hotel, an horse etc...'
you don't pronounce the 'h.'

Conversely, the Scottish and the Americans pronounce the 'h' before the 'W' in words such as 'where, what, when, etc...'

And then you realise that an orange is actually a norange, almost. The Spanish have it right.

And an apron is actually a napron

An adder is a nadder

It's called misdivision often from when we had French as our official (ruling class) language and I used to find it fascinating. It goes the other way too

A notch was an otch
An umpire an oumpere

My favourite, because of the silliness, is a nickname was an ekename, something to do with it being additional (eked out)

And bunch of grapes is wrong too. It's a group of raisins, but we liked the grappe more than the raisins. Oh look, grappa! Maybe not...

I wonder when I stopped loving these?

@Cheeseycheeseycheesecheese

I've just checked. It's if the vowel is the stronger sound like in heir or hour. Whereas hotel is a stronger h, so it is hotel. Knew I should have double checked 🤦‍♀️

So if the first letter is a silent "h", you pretend that it never existed in the first place.

knittingaddict I suppose it's one of those leftover rules. I can remember filling in an a/an close test and knowing historian and hotel took an, though you wouldn't have expected them to. Was it to do with French origin perhaps?

I don't think it's incorrect not to use an though, iyswim, as language has evolved.

I say an ‘otel. Though I say it softly so it doesn’t sound too pretentious (I hope) or like the woman from the refreshment room in Brief Encounter

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

My father is in the "an 'otel" camp, as was his mother. My grandmother was quite Hyacinth Bucket, so I always assumed it was one of those non-U sorts of things (she would also say serviette, settee, and sweet for a pudding).

Lol - those other examples are all very Hyacinth B so you'd think non-U (my granny's favourite saying....) but actually I think 'an otel' and 'an istoric....' are correct, if somewhat pedantic?

No idea why but a PP said French origin might explain it as they don't say their h's? Sounds plausible, anyway.

I think I may say it myself occasionally but it does sound odd, and I suspect will die out soon. Meanwhile I'll go for 'a nice hotel'....!

Sort of - printers corrected h-words of French or Latin origin to have an before them, right back to the 1600s. But that wouldn't make an historic and an hotel "right" and all the other possibilities wrong. "An heroic"?

There's been no formal rule requiring "an" usage before any sounded h, even in British English, for over 100 years. Style guides and usage guides tend the other way, but acknowledge variation.

A close test that presented this as a rule is the kind of thing Michael Gove would come up with to torment schoolkids - I hope there was nothing riding on the test you did.

With hotel I think it was because it was a direct import from French. But definitely outdated nowadays.

Ha, it was homework around aged 10. It definitely was given as a rule! And I've seen it many times since then. But as I say language evolves. I remember only James' was an option for James' coat when I was in school but now James's is also OK. The latter seems strange to me.

I see on an Oxford University page online they talk about 'Life as an historian' so it is definitely still in use.

It's definitely an hotel but I don't ever say it, sounds wrong. I write it though.

Interesting to read it's about french derivation but isn't hospital too? I'd definitely not say an hospital. An hôpital is marginally better but might raise a few eyebrows

My great grandmother always said an 'otel, but as she was born in 1891 I guess that's what she would have learned growing up.

I say an hotel and an historian / historic. I have no idea where I picked it up either, as I’m fairly sure no-one in my immediate family does it.

The H in Hotel is silent so it is an (H)Otel. Most people seem to get this wrong.

Nope. Ido said an I'd automatically drop the h

An orse
An ouse
An historian I'd say is 5h3 exception but my default would still be a historian

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I see on an Oxford University page online they talk about 'Life as an historian' so it is definitely still in use.

They can use it if they like 🙂 Oxford Dictionary says either pronunciation (though Cambridge offers only sounded h)

Depends how I pronounce hotel which varies.
A hotel
An otel.

A historic.
An istoric.

Etc.

An hour.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Ha, it was homework around aged 10. It definitely was given as a rule! And I've seen it many times since then. But as I say language evolves. I remember only James' was an option for James' coat when I was in school but now James's is also OK. The latter seems strange to me.

People just seem to make different language usage about right and wrong and rules, but I bet none of us has ever had any problem understanding an otel or an hotel. Ditto an (h)istorian. I hope no-one feels better or worse than anyone else for using either.

There are some really weird hangovers in written language from certain publishers - the New Yorker magazine still prints that "Democrats coöperate to reëlect the President". I like hearing what people actually say and reading what they write and wondering what the point would be in having language rules that nobody followed or needed ...

This has blown my mind, I didn't know it's supposed to be 'an' for hotel. It doesn't exactly flow does it, I'm not sitting here muttering 'an hotel' over and over like a lunatic.

You do drop the h if you say an though Like Americans talking about Erbs.