To ask if you know any ex-conspiracy theorists?

[Merryoldgoat]

A friend has got caught up in the ‘covid isn’t real’ party and I’m a sheeple and won’t see the truth blah blah.

I’m not getting into a big fight with my friend but she’s well and truly fallen down the conspiracy theory well.

Do you know anyone who realised and came ‘back’? Or is she gone forever?

This is an intelligent (I thought) professional who seems to have become unrecognisable over the last 4/5 years.

It’s very sad 😔

YABU - lots of people wake up from this crap

YANBU - she’s gone forever I’m afraid

I know what you mean. The CT in my life is a relatively uneducated male who was, in his youth, a rough but fairly beautiful man. He has not aged well (still has his 80s Billy Idol look) and is no more capable of critical thinking. But my god can he memories and parrot back some detailed and complex stuff.

Had his family been at all supportive he could have used that basic intellect and been quite scarily academic.

But he is what he is... A passive and committed follower of some truly weird thinkers.

@CuriousaboutSamphire - I used to somewhat put this family member on a pedestal, so my disillusionment has been quite far-reaching; and reading your post, I now have to admit that they have never really had a grasp on critical thinking and/or logic, and that my thinking they had managed to transcend family patterns was actually a complex form of dissociation.

I've also seen just how controlling they are: separating their partner from family members because the family thinks it's a load of bollocks, taking the kids out of school, sending emails to me about vaccines/latest research, even after I clearly asked them not to. Because, of course, they know - know - they're right.

That rings a bell!

Mine has been through 2 marriages and a few intense long term relationships. His current partner has the sense not to live with him, and knew him way back in his beautiful days. So he gets his fix of adoration and she retains her independence.

Weird!!

Weird

I once worked with someone who believed a lot of Hollywood actresses past and present were actually men. She even included Marilyn Monroe in this. But she did start to doubt herself eventually, either that or she got fed up of people looking at her like she was crazy.

I listened again to the Infinite Monkey Cage episode last night. They pointed out there was correlation between education level and belief in conspiracy theories - ie people that believe in them tend, on average, not to be educated to a university level (disclaimer, I’m not trying to disparage people who have not been to Uni - I didn’t go myself!).

Interestingly though, they did state that when it comes to “health” related conspiracy theories (anti vaxxers, etc) those theories are more likely to take hold in middle class groups.

There’s a difference between sensibly questioning what is going on, with a genuine desire to understand it better and challenge, and believing patent shite like “covid does not exist” or stuff based on absolutely zero evidence, other than some YouTube crank saying it.

I really hope so.

It's weird this being now, because I have had one hell of a fuck of a weekend.
Havinb discovered that my extremely sensible and normal dh has been sucked hook, line and sinker into aaaaaall of the worst of the current conspiracy theories.
I nearly chucked him out for good, after the absolute climax of believing donald trump will save the world. I've never seen him so absolutely convinced about anything before.
I screamed and screamed at him so much that I went supersonic.
But something pulled me back into reality and rang the Samaritans, explained the most utterly bizarre situation - honestly it sounded like I was the nutjob what I was describing.
I had her on speakerphone and dh next to me, so she spoke to us both.
It was scary how calm he was all through this, with his adamance that it was all true. (At one point during the weekend he'd mocked me for not being "awake" and understanding what was being hidden)
Upshot - Samaritans woman told him he had to talk to 111, which he did and has now (on their referral) made a telephone appointment for next week.
And yesterday evening there was a LOT of talking about the utter insanity of it.

I honestly don't know what the outcome will be, but he seems thus far to be accepting that he has been utterly sucked in.
And we know exactly who's been feeding it to him.
We are working on the assumption that it's all come because of his fear of covid, and the fact he never thought it would be a good idea to discuss his fears with anyone.

I dont know about recovering con theorists but I know it nearly always follows a pattern that ends in anti semitism. Have just blocked a friend after watching the descent through trump, anti lockdown to anti vaccine etc. Middle class woman university educated. Unhappy in her personal life.

That must have been a shock, nickel, what made you think to call the Samaritans?

Following with interest as a very old friend (who lives in a different country) has recently disappeared down this rabbit hole. Also concerned about it but have stepped away.

In my friend's case there's a background of being quite vulnerable which had seemed to be in the past but more significantly I think its down to a bloke: her FB posts are all echoing and signalling what he's saying and he appears to be the only person who likes or responds to them.

I just hope they will break up.

I find it shocking how conspiracy theorists can take any fact and twist it to suit their narrative.

A friend has been saying that Covid is a hoax for the past year - it's no worse than flu and we didn't need to lockdown or socially distance.

Yesterday, I was talking to someone else about the harrowing, appalling news coming out of India and my friend just listened. I wondered how the awful images fit into her belief that it was a hoax and you could see her trying to make sense of it. Eventually - she said the people are dying from the vaccine not Covid, and that was all over her social media within the hour.

@noblegiraffe

That must have been a shock, nickel, what made you think to call the Samaritans?

I recognised delusion (psychosis) symptoms, and during my shouting over the weekend I had been telling him he needed help, even mentioned trepanning , but he kept reiterating the same stuff. During the screaming part, I kept repeating "you need help, you're mentally ill" and I just couldn't think how to get to him. Then it just came to me - I could find their number and get them to tell him he needed help. That he would listen to someone who wasn't screaming that he was insane

Look- over the past 18 months or so the government have made it illegal to have family in your own house, go abroad, go swimming, visit a sick relative in hospital, not to operate many businesses and the law for our kids to study with face masks on in school. I could go on... and on.

I don’t blame anyone for trying to make sense of this surreal dystopian nightmare in slightly ludicrous ways to be honest.

the law for our kids to study with face masks on in school

This one isn't true.

nickel well done for spotting the signs and finding a way to get him help. Good luck

I think there’s a difference between someone saying that covid is a hoax or that we are all going to be micro-chipped etc and someone questioning whether they are comfortable having the vaccine.

If you are in a younger age group and are unlikely to suffer greatly if you catch covid, then fair enough for questioning the need to have a vaccine that won’t have fully passed trials until 2023. Critical thinking should be encouraged when it’s your own body in question, as long as you aren’t pressing your view onto someone else. They have already stated that you can still catch or pass on covid once you’ve had the vaccine, so the argument ‘but you’re protecting everyone else by having it’ isn’t really relevant.

To be honest, I hear more noise, ‘preaching’ and belittling from people who believe that the vaccine is the be all and end all, than from people who don’t agree with it.

Thanks nobel - it's been such a surreal weekend!

Well my children are expected to wear one on every lesson now.

Regardless, I think you are deliberately missing my point.

@nickelbabe

Thanks nobel - it's been such a surreal weekend!

It sounds like it has been. And very stressful.

I think what has hit me most of all about my family member is what you say: their calmness. It's this that has had my head spinning at times, even though I am well aware of the mechanics of mental illness. It has been so much easier for me to deal with people who are hysterical - you can see their dysfunction from a mile off; it announces itself not only in what they're saying but also in how they're saying it.

But in this case, it's that calmness. That certainty. The sheer bloody "normal-ness" of it - so the gaslighting factor, as listener, gets turned up to volume 11.

That, right there, is the power of the unconscious. These complexes are infectious, and they have impacts that have us questioning our own sanity. That's what they do.

QAnon is starting to looked on as a cult, the way all these conspiracy theorists insidiously get under the skin and make people change the way they live their lives and deliberately isolates them from their loved ones. It’s like people are being radicalised.

WhatMatters
Yes, my friend said that the main reason they're so calm about it us because they "know" it's truth. And of course, we know that no one gets maniacal when they're saying something true, that would be weird.
By the time they say this stuff to people, they've had time to process it as actual truth.

I don't know how you can help your friend, apart from the advice about asking her what the resources are.
my friends did send me some links, so I'll try to find them from our messages and post them here

www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/the-best-way-to-fight-back-against-conspiracy-theorists-like-alex-jones.html

www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/26/how-to-talk-with-and-maybe-help-someone-who-believes-in-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories/

They might help.
I skipped right past the "be calm" bit because it hit me like a bullet.

bit weird it defaulted to a click here text instead of showing the link

Oh! That's weeeeeird!

On the app, the links just show as "click here", but on the browser you can see the link and comment!

@nickelbabe

Oh! That's weeeeeird!

On the app, the links just show as "click here", but on the browser you can see the link and comment!

Thank you so much for thinking of me with those links, @nickelbabe. I've read everything - well, I did when this started with my sibling last year.

I've realised there's nothing I can do. We had a very difficult childhood, and in some ways they had it harder because they were favoured, whereas I was the scapegoats. Scapegoats may have it hard, but the upside is that their view of family life is less ambivalent: I know it was shit, I could feel that I was singled out in many ways, and so I had something to act on and received help. It has taken me nearly 25 years in therapy to reach a place where I can see more clearly, where I know myself better, and I have a more realistic view of my parents and my relationship to and with them.

I suspect this is not the case for my sibling, and they are very highly and effectively defended. There's nothing to do but to let them get on with it, as long as their children are loved and cared for. What I will no longer do is indulge them any longer. I will not ridicule, but I will be straight. I've avoided this for fear of their rage, and because it may well drive them away. But I can't control them. I can only deal with myself. I think it's different for you because you share a life with the person who's succumbed to this - you have a far more immediate stake in this. I hope things get better for you.

Yes, you have the history that you can look back on and see that this person won't be too much of a loss to yiu.

I'm sorry you had a shit upbringing.