School refusing to give antibiotics

[Slayerofmyth]

My daughter has warts on her arm that have become infected. She has been prescribed antibiotics four times a day in liquid form that have to be kept in fridge. She has one dose upon wakening but needs 2 more doses throughout school day. I work so can't get to school to give it, theres no one else. School are refusing to give it, I've said I'll keep her off then so I can administer ( taking time off work,), they say I'll get a fine for absence. What the heck am I supposed to do? Please advise.

@MonsteraMother absolutely delighted to hear your voice of reason on here. No doubt plenty will be along shortly to disagree with you and tell you all the reasons why your pragmatic position is wrong

@Sbk28 pardon my very late response. I think I've made my position on what I consider the purpose of primary schools to be ..... a place of education for young children where their most basic needs (which include prescribed medications) are able to be met in order to effectively facilitate that education

Insulated lunch box/cool box or shove a frozen juice box in with the food = fridge.
If school are refusing to help and parents can’t then kids will have to self medicate. The parent can put the dose in so they can’t od (can you even od on antibiotics?)

Can she go home for her lunch break and take the medication at home? I don't think it would be unreasonable for a 10 year old to do this if you don't live far. Schools used to let pupils home for their lunch so I can't see why they couldn't allow this.

Sounds rubbish - I’m late to this party.

Glad there’s a solution- sorry it’s been stressful.
Administering Medication policies can differ in schools, but it’s really not helpful to be refused and threatened with a fine.
Also the changing for PE thing should be separated- usually from Year 4.
Hope your daughter feels better soon.

Glad you got the medication sorted OP.

I'm pretty sure that there are no laws around primary changing however, best practice is definitely that pupils should change separately from Yr2 onwards.

Have a look at the NSPCC guidance if you need anything to quote when you speak to school

Bramblespoint

"Glad you got the medication sorted OP.

I'm pretty sure that there are no laws around primary changing however, best practice is definitely that pupils should change separately from Yr2 onwards.

Have a look at the NSPCC guidance if you need anything to quote when you speak to school"

Sometimes it's like living in a parallel universe......where practically everyone I speak to about it can see it's not right for boys and girls to be changing together and the schools stance, like I'm some kind of alien for having an issue with it????

@Slayerofmyth

www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/NSPCC-factsheet-best-practice-for-pe-changing-rooms.pdf

This is definitely a hill I'd die on.

Agree with SuperMonkeys. My school will do it as long as parents sign. That doesn’t help you though. I’d certainly be taking it up with them.

I just read through your post. I had a similar problem a couple of years ago regarding medicine and school refusing to administer it. It was only one day when I had a hospital appointment, but obviously I didn't want my son missing a dose. I found a work around, by asking one of the other mums to give a dose after school as my son went to his friend's that day, and then I had to give the other doses in the morning before school, and then another dose around 6pm and another at 8pm. Not as spaced out as I'd have liked, but I had to find a way to do it. The school told me that for them to give medicine there would usually be a long term agreement which is made with the school nurse. I don't recall ever meeting/seeing the school nurse, but that's another story.
I found the general attitude to be unhelpful and like you, I felt like it was like they were being deliberately awkward. I was lucky that I wasn't working as I had just had a baby, but it meant having to dash up the school every day at lunch time during the depths of winter, with a newborn, while I was still recovering from a very difficult and complicated pregnancy and birth. The school could have been a lot more understanding and compassionate. This is a school that was always haring on about 'building positive relationships'.
So I completely sympathise. I hope you are managing ok with the new medicine. I think you are entirely right to make an official written complaint though. The school should take every family's circumstances into account and try to be helpful instead of the whole 'computer says no..' attitude. If a childminder can administer prescribed medicine, and they can, then a school should be able to do it.

With regards to your daughter changing for PE, you can request that she has appropriate privacy that she clearly needs. While she is on the medicine, if one of the side effects is dizziness or tiredness, I would make sure she is excused from PE this week anyway. You can provide a note for this each time, and the school have a duty of care not to ignore that. They infact have a duty of care to allow your daughter privacy under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child which is legislation that applies in the UK. Article 16 regarding privacy and article 12 regarding the child's own views being taken seriously and into consideration regarding decisions that affect them. The privacy one can be interpreted in different ways, it doesn't only apply to data and communications. This is demonstrated in the child's version of the legislation here: www.unicef.org/child-rights-convention/convention-text-childrens-version
But if you google UN Convention on the Rights of the Child you can view the full version. As someone pointed out earlier the NSPCC have produced a fact sheet with guidance for best practice regarding primary aged children changing for PE.
Ask if the school has a policy on this and request a copy to be emailed to you.
You could also contact the local safeguarding department at your local authority/Council. Just ring the council and ask for child safeguarding. This is a serious issue as it affects your daughter emotionally, and if the school are neglecting her in this way as a result of not providing adequate and appropriate privacy during changing, then it is a safeguarding issue. I would also raise this point with the school themselves.
I wish you all the best.

And to the person who earlier said why can't she take the medicine and take it herself in school? You can't give children medicine in their bags in case another child gets hold of it! This could be disastrous if said child ends up taking it and having a severe reaction. Aside from the fact that antibiotics have to be kept refrigerated!

There is no way you, or anyone else, can compel a teacher or admin worker to administer medicine. If it is done, it is done on a voluntary basis. If no one is prepared to do it then it can't be done.

OP, you are sounding like a nightmare parent , making demands that cannot be forced on staff.

There are many schools where teachers will not give antibiotics and there are good reason why not.

@Radio4Rocks

There is no way you, or anyone else, can compel a teacher or admin worker to administer medicine. If it is done, it is done on a voluntary basis. If no one is prepared to do it then it can't be done.

OP, you are sounding like a nightmare parent , making demands that cannot be forced on staff.

There are many schools where teachers will not give antibiotics and there are good reason why not.

Perhaps they are not employing staff who care about children's welfare or just can't be bothered following their official council policies. That is a red flag for me if a school cannot find even one or two members of staff (can be teaching assistants,support assistants or office staff, too) and also cannot be bothered to provide basic privacy so children can get changed with dignity.

OP sounds anything but a 'nightmare parent' and I am pleased that she has been able to organise a different medication. Now I hope she can sort out the inadequate changing facilities.

6am
3.30pm
7.30pm
Wake at midnight for 4th dose

Not ideal and not exactly completely every spaced but I did similar for DS in the past and the antibiotics still worked and it is only for a few days so the inconvenience is short lived . This is what I would do but that does assume you have someone to pick her up from school at the normal time. If not I'd book some half days off work to pick up myself . Going in at lunchtime is not possible for some jobs without taking a while day off

Alternatively speak to the pharmacist re dosing as already mentioned. If you can give it twice instead of four times that solves the problem completely.

I know people are trying to help by suggesting that you work half days but it is making me chuckle. Asking to work half days when you work in a pharmacy really does not go down well in my experience 😂😂

Glad you got it sorted, OP. I understand that the paperwork and staffing involved with administering medication in schools is tricky but I don’t think it’s acceptable. Not taking antibiotics properly can lead to all sorts of problems. I’d perhaps lodge a gentle ‘complaint’, explain that you understand the staffing/admin difficulties but also highlight the importance of acute medication being given correctly and how their policy makes things very difficult for parents/guardians with similar circumstances to you and your family

Also teachers work in a job where it's very difficult to be flexible with their own children, you think they'd be a bit more understanding that coming in to give medicine in the middle of the day or taking short notice time off isn't always possible so you think they'd be more understanding of those in similar careers.

GeorgieTheGorgeousCat has hit the nail on the head.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat

Also teachers work in a job where it's very difficult to be flexible with their own children, you think they'd be a bit more understanding that coming in to give medicine in the middle of the day or taking short notice time off isn't always possible so you think they'd be more understanding of those in similar careers.

I think it’s already been said several times on this thread that it’s not teachers that make decisions like this in schools.

@MarchXX

Perhaps they are not employing staff who care about children's welfare or just can't be bothered following their official council policies. That is a red flag for me if a school cannot find even one or two members of staff (can be teaching assistants,support assistants or office staff, too) and also cannot be bothered to provide basic privacy so children can get changed with dignity.

Perhaps it's because they do care that they do not feel qualified to medicate children. DS1 went into anaphylactic shock halfway through a course of penicillin when he was 6. Fortunately he was at home and we knew what to do and an ambulance was there is minutes.

The fear of this is why some will not medicate children. I know I wouldn't.

@Radio4Rocks

🙌👏! Spot on!! Some of the disdain for teachers and schools on this thread is down right appalling!

Our school policy is not to give medications for reasons such as this, can you imagine the litigation processes for schools if medication provision went wrong! It could bankrupt a school! I cannot believe it IS in school policies. Because it is not in ours, or any school I have ever taught in!!

@BlackeyedSusan

ring the education welfare officer at the council and the school nurse responsible for your school and see if they can help put a rocket up their arse.

Make it clear that the child is off becuase the schoool are refusing to provide medical treatment. Complain to the head teacher.

I'd go with contacting the welfare officer head teacher and nurse. Also the govenors. School is being unreasonable. Another possibility is a trusted older friend, if you know of anybody, or could ask around, such as a sixth former...

But that's the thing isn't it. It's all about school policy. Parents and pupils are supposed to help inform policy, as are situations that the school can learn from, so that policy can be improved and updated. That is good practice. If you work in a school, when was the last time your school asked parents and pupils their views on administering medicine in school? I have never been asked and neither have my children. Schools have staff trained in first aid and they will administer epi pens in emergencies, and give children inhalers to use when needed. A member if staff giving a child a dose of prescribed medicine which a parent has given written permission to do, is no different. There are disabled children in mainstream schools who require daily prescribed medicine doses. If your school policy is not to give medicines and staff will not do it, then how would that be inclusive? Would a school say no to giving the medicine and exclude the child by doing so? It's utter nonsense. Schools can ultimately make the decision. There is no law that tells them that they cannot do it.

As for children having allergic reactions to their own medicines, they can have allergic reactions to anything, even their own school dinner or using school paints and other things.
Children are not permitted to self medicate because the school needs to be sure the correct dose was given at the correct time. They also have to ensure they are stored safely and that pupils don't have access to other children's medicines. It is not a difficult task for schools. I've worked in both nurseries and schools where it was done effectively.
As someone said earlier, thus particular school was unreasonable and threatening the OP with a fine was plain silly. It has nothing to do with the school anyway, that would be the council's decision. Putting children's welfare at the forefront, having a caring environment and positive relationships with parents and carers is one thing, but it's just hot air if schools don't actively follow through in all areas of daily school life, and if as a school, you are not prepared to show compassion and understanding to parents and their individual circumstances and situations.

Ask you doctor whether 3 doses, morning, after school and bedtime would be almost as effective. Ask the school whether they could give one dose at lunchtime. These things are not set in stone.

I remember discussing a medication I was taking. Instructions were to take it once daily, before bed. Considering my lifestyle at the time, I'd have often forgotten. I asked how much less effective it would bed taken in the morning. 'Well,' came the answer 'It'll be a heck of a lot more effective taken in the morning than NOT taken at night!'

Our school policy is not to give medications for reasons such as this, can you imagine the litigation processes for schools if medication provision went wrong! It could bankrupt a school! I cannot believe it IS in school policies. Because it is not in ours, or any school I have ever taught in!!

I suspect you are mistaken, unless you happen to have worked in a number of schools which all decided to disregard statutory guidance and thereby break the law.

Most policies make it clear that staff will give medication in accordance with instructions, and it's easy enough to put in place a system that ensures that that is what happens and that it's properly recorded. On that basis there is no realistic possibility of successful litigation. Even if there were, schools wouldn't be bankrupted because that is why they have insurance.

I feel the school are reasonable in declining to administer medicines, but completely unreasonable in threatening fines when a pupil is absent because they need to take medicines during school hours!

What's happened is now your daughter is taking a second choice medicine because of the school's nasty spiteful threats.

How can a school be reasonable if it is breaking the law?