To think a company can't demote you after stress leave?

[GreenHeritier]

Hi all, posting here for traffic and have NCed to protect friend's anonymity.

A close friend of mine has been on stress leave for 5 months following a burnout. Her role was a high-pressure, high-responsibility managerial role running a large team. She is now feeling better and had a few conversations with HR about returning to work.

She has requested that they make some tweaks to her role so she can avoid stressful, high-pressure responsibilities like dealing with well-known difficult people or particularly stressful projects.

HR has now said that they can't accommodate her request and that they therefore don't think she is fit to take her original role back as she can't perform the duties the role requires. They have offered her a smaller, low-responsibility role with no managerial duties, but with the same salary as before.

AIBU I think what they are doing is illegal and she should speak to a lawyer?

Not everyone is suited to every job. If she can't handle that job, it's not a good fit for her, and I'd say they're being very generous to offer her a less stressful job with the same salary.

Talking to citizens advice wouldn't hurt but I don't think they are being unreasonable as she is saying she can't do her original job and they would then need to find someone else to fill in the gap

She can't pick and choose parts of the jobs she wants. I think the firm have been very flexible.

But they are right? She couldn't cope with the stress so ended up off sick? She can't do the job so is better off with something else.

It's perfectly lawful and more than most employers would be prepared to do.

She's not fit to perform her original role. The business cannot accommodate paying her to do part of that role and somebody else to do the parts she can't do.

Offering to redeploy her on the same salary is more than acceptable. They would be entitled to cut the salary to match the redeployment.

If it's been 5 months, she's still not fit for her original role and doesn't expect to be such that she's asked for such significant changes then it sounds like EA would come into play. Employer is still going beyond what the law would require them to do.

Even the EA doesn't stop employers dismissing staff on capability grounds.

Support her in grieving her old career & health so she can embrace what they're offering and move her life forward.

It sounds like she is asking for more than a reasonable adjustment. She needs union or legal advice.

They aren't demoting her.

She has asked for the tweaks, they can't accommodate them, hence the offer (which sounds fantastic, and it seems they want to keep her on).

She's lucky. Many employers wouldn't go to such lengths to keep people.

their offer is reasonable, she would be stupid not to take it.

being blunt, she clearly is at the moment no longer able to do the job, if thats permanent or temp, but she should take the role

I think the company sound as though they are being really reasonable. What's your friend's idea? That she goes back, has the title and kudos of leading the team while not doing the bits she doesn't like? And who would do those bits? The person who has been covering for her?

She should accept it, tbh. She doesn't really sound cut out for a career in that industry anyway.

Frankly, if she shows any sign of acting like a hard done by, put upon madam about this she's in danger of having the offer withdrawn completely and managed out.
Her employers have been extraordinarily accommodating. Above and beyond what is actually required.

I’m very surprised that you or anyone else would query the legality of this. Seems like an excellent option.

Is she really still doing the majority of that job if you take away those intolerable aspects? Or are the tough projects (and people) pretty integral to the role? If the former then yes I agree they could work around it. If the later, then I’d agree with PP that it means she can’t cope with this level, which is fine, and should do a different type of job. I don’t think the fact she’s worked so hard and would feel humiliated are the right way to look at it. The job made her sick. For nearly half a year!
Just because you can rise to a certain level with enough hard work, sacrifice, disciple, doesn’t always mean you should, if it ends up that’s not right for you. There’s absolutely no shame in pivoting, if it turns out that managing hugely difficult projects or people is not all it’s cracked up to be, life is too short for misplaced pride.

She thinks they are planning on offering her old role to the person who's been doing the job as temporary replacement whilst she is out on leave.

Well of course, that person has experience in the role and has shown they are up to it.

They're being more than reasonable. Especially as they're still willing to pay her the same for doing less work. They'll also have to pay her replacement more so they're out of pocket for her.

She asked to cherry pick what jobs she wanted to do while still keeping the title but not doing the work the title includes. Instead, letting someone else do those bits, without the title. If the title is so important for her career, I imagine it's equally important for the career of the person actually doing the job. They've given her what she needs, a less stressful job, they just haven't let her pretend that she does a different job.

Your friend has told her work that she is unable to do the role that she is currently in. They have given her an alternative on the same pay. She is either capable of leading a team or she isn't.
Being a manager means being able to manage all kinds of people and projects, not just the easy ones. She can't say that she wants to continue with the tiltle that she has now when she wont be doing that job.
Some people just are not cut out to be managers, sounds like this is the case for your friend.

She can't just opt out of doing the harder bits of the job while cherry picking the bits that she likes

Exactly this, it comes with the territory. The only way to pick and choose who she interacts with and what work she takes on is self employment.

She should take the new role they are offering her.

Senior HR person here

Company are being incredibly reasonable.

Only thing she may want to consider is discussing temporary period - either for her return in current role (expecting she would do the role) or for the demotion to see if she’s happy. But these may well put her on a back foot so I wouldn’t rush to recommend them.

If she can’t see how fortunate she is in this situation, I’d kindly question if she is well enough to return to work

So they are offering her old role to a person who can do the job.

How can she possibly have a problem with that?

Doesn't sound illegal at all. Sounds like decent practice.

She thinks they are planning on offering her old role to the person who's been doing the job as temporary replacement whilst she is out on leave

Why should they not? She doesn't get to define the role, they do. She can't fulfil the role. Cheeky to think she can dictate what the role is, cherry pick all the nice parts, keep the title and delegate the unpleasant parts to others who don't get the same prestige.

I'd encourage her to accept the offer graciously. She can try it out or get another job.

They've been very accommodating.

Was the issue that the role was fundamentally overloaded and she wants to recut the roles? Presumably your friend did perfectly well in the roles for a lengthy period to be promoted.

If she has a reasonable proposal for reorganising the work then they should explain why they don't think it will work, especially if she performed well in the role previously until many of the additional covid year stresses cut in. They should be able to demonstrate accommodations for this which they have made for staff generally.
If it is an industry standard role and not fundamentally overloaded or something she has struggled with previously then a different role may make sense.

@C8H10N4O2

Was the issue that the role was fundamentally overloaded and she wants to recut the roles? Presumably your friend did perfectly well in the roles for a lengthy period to be promoted.

If she has a reasonable proposal for reorganising the work then they should explain why they don't think it will work, especially if she performed well in the role previously until many of the additional covid year stresses cut in. They should be able to demonstrate accommodations for this which they have made for staff generally.
If it is an industry standard role and not fundamentally overloaded or something she has struggled with previously then a different role may make sense.

There's someone currently in role managing perfectly well 🤷🏻‍♀️

@C8H10N4O2

Was the issue that the role was fundamentally overloaded and she wants to recut the roles? Presumably your friend did perfectly well in the roles for a lengthy period to be promoted.

If she has a reasonable proposal for reorganising the work then they should explain why they don't think it will work, especially if she performed well in the role previously until many of the additional covid year stresses cut in. They should be able to demonstrate accommodations for this which they have made for staff generally.
If it is an industry standard role and not fundamentally overloaded or something she has struggled with previously then a different role may make sense.

Would you be OK with doing your bosses hard parts of their job, while they get the pay and prestige of the job and you get nothing extra?

That's effectively what this woman wants. It's kind of no wonder that hr said no. Imagine the hell they'd get from the poor person below her that gets that deal.

Honestly, she's lucky. Many employers wouldn't have made her such a good offer. They'd have started capability processes and dismissed her.

Exactly this. If I were her, I'd bite their hand off!

[quote GreenHeritier]@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil true but it would be a big demotion and potentially damager her future career.[/quote]
That may be what it is. But she's not fit for the job that gave her that title etc. So actually, would be unreasonable for her to maintain that job title and be able to move on to another role of the same or higher grade, which would be very unfair to the next employer.

She's incredibly lucky to not be found incapable and dismissed. To keep her salary is incredibly lucky when she's clearly unfit for the role that affords that salary.

It's completely reasonable, she can't perform the role as is.