To think a company can't demote you after stress leave?

[GreenHeritier]

Hi all, posting here for traffic and have NCed to protect friend's anonymity.

A close friend of mine has been on stress leave for 5 months following a burnout. Her role was a high-pressure, high-responsibility managerial role running a large team. She is now feeling better and had a few conversations with HR about returning to work.

She has requested that they make some tweaks to her role so she can avoid stressful, high-pressure responsibilities like dealing with well-known difficult people or particularly stressful projects.

HR has now said that they can't accommodate her request and that they therefore don't think she is fit to take her original role back as she can't perform the duties the role requires. They have offered her a smaller, low-responsibility role with no managerial duties, but with the same salary as before.

AIBU I think what they are doing is illegal and she should speak to a lawyer?

She has asked for reasonable adjustments which they cannot accommodate, she has asked for the adjustments... HR as offering an alternative. Completely lawful.

She has to make a choice wother she goes back and risks burn out again or she takes a sensible step back that will damage her career to some extent but protect her mental health

Perhaps you would be a good friend if you could gently try to make her face the fact that she can't actually do the job she wants to do?

She needs to face some facts. If you want to be a team leader in a stressful role, you can't say "Oh but I don't want to do this bit, and this bit, or deal with this awkward person, ta everso"

[quote GreenHeritier]@paralysedbyinertia this is the company's proposal.

Her proposal was to continue leading the team but with those modifications I mentioned, and hands-on support from someone else in the team for the bits she couldn't do.[/quote]
Doing that would be incredibly unfair to any peers she might have who retain the stressful bits of the role on the same level as your friend. And possibly puts more work on them!

You need to do what @Shelby2010 has advised. Your friend isn’t capable of her old role and is incredibly fortunate the company has offered what they have. She doesn’t even need to consider it a step down (she should spin it as being that good, they’re utilising he4 as an SME).

It seems petty unanimous, and I would concur, that your friend’s employer has been extremely reasonable and your friend has unrealistic expectations. It does very much read like she wants to keep the job, the title but not do any of the hard bits, which are no doubt the reason the job is at a higher level.

If she can’t fulfil her role then yes, the company can effectively get rid of her. Appreciate it’s not her fault she has suffered with stress. But it’s not the companies either they need someone in that role.
They have been fair and it’s right to try and find her alternative work that suits her stress levels. Rather than dismiss her. The fact that she is being offered the same salary is more than fair.

As April and others have said, the employer here is being very fair and reasonable. Your friend has asked for Reasonable Adjustments to her role. The company has they can’t accommodate those ones (which legally yup they can do) but have offered others. It’s not a demotion - your friend retains the same pay and conditions. It’s actually a very accommodating, perfectly legal, offer the company has made. Your friend has choices now - she can accept the offer made, or choose to leave.

@GreenHeritier

It’s rare that I’m on the side of an employer, but here we are.

They are being incredibly reasonable and your friend is being utterly entitled to think that she can basically write her own job description, and the company just nod along.

She’s being offered something many people who jump at, and she’s turning up her nose because of the title?

If I were her I’d be counting my lucky stars.

I think as a friend you should gently suggest she's being massively unreasonable and if she complains about this offer it isn't going to reflect well on her.

So she’s stressed about not having the job title of the job that burnt her out and she can no longer do? Reasonable adjustments are only required under the equality act for disability. And even then the word is reasonable.

Most employers would start the incapacity route after 5 months off. Legally her employer could explore her ability to do her own job and sack her if they established that she can’t. And she can’t can she?

By her own admission she can’t do the job, so being offered a less stressful job on the same salary is a gift.

How will this affect her future employment less than being sacked or seriously stressed or unable to do her job?

It's a perfectly reasonable offer. She is no longer able to do her original role, so they've found her a new role.

Imagine a pilot developed sight problems, and returned to work to say he couldn't fly any more, but could he have a job that didn't involve flying. If the airline gave him an admin job, he couldn't expect them to still call his job "pilot".

More not less 🙄

That sounds more than reasonable to me. Talk about having your cake and eating it, and then asking for more cake!
I'd love to dump the bits of my job I dislike - onto some other poor person who won't like them either - and still get the same money.

@CattingTime

How is it a demotion if she's on the same salary and pay grade?

You can't offload the managerial and tricky parts of the job and keep the same managerial/technical title.

Presumably someone else is going to have to pick up the bits she doesn't do?

I think the company are being very reasonable tbh.

And the other person will get all the hard bits of the job, with your friend getting all the nice bits. Who is going to want that role?

Her employer has to consider the needs of all employees, and of the business, not just your friend.

Sorry, I too think the company is being reasonable. Dealing with stressful projects are part of a high level management job which it sounds like your friend can't manage, or her mental health will suffer. Going part time, for example, to limit exposure to this would result in a pay cut. I think the company are being reasonable.

I too think she should accept the role and ease herself back in .if she is really good she will of course prove herself and gradually take on more . But in her own time . This is not about saving face it’s about her health . It sounds like a very reasonable offer .

[quote GreenHeritier]@paralysedbyinertia this is the company's proposal.

Her proposal was to continue leading the team but with those modifications I mentioned, and hands-on support from someone else in the team for the bits she couldn't do.[/quote]
So does this other person get paid more?
It really sounds like a fair deal to me
Health is far more important

I mean, imagine her going to an interview for that role. "Yes, I want to be a high-powered manager, but I don't want to do the stressy bits of the job". Do you think they would take her on?

So she wants to write her own job description? She needs her own business for that.

I think the company have made more than a reasonable offer of adjustment - less stress, same job. I honestly think that what she would ideally like (same job but doesn’t have to deal with certain people or certain projects) sounds utterly unrealistic

@Chloemol

The firm are being reasonable in helping her back into the workplace

If the people causing her stress are there m as are the projects then why exactly should those elements be removed and dumped elsewhere as she can’t cope? Harsh as it sounds she is either ready to return to her role, or not

She has stated she is not really but in order to get her into the workplace they have offered her another role. Has she discussed if this would be temporary, say for 3 months and then she reverts back to her proper role? That is of course if she is capable.

The role consists of x,y z. She can’t pick and choose she only does x and z because she doesn’t like y. They are helping her back, it’s now up to her to decide if she wants the managerial role or the other one

It wouldn't be temporary.

She thinks they are planning on offering her old role to the person who's been doing the job as temporary replacement whilst she is out on leave.

sorry, I mean less stress same salary is more than a reasonable offer

Frankly I don't know what to advice

Whatever you do don't start querying with her, as you did in your OP, whether their offer is "illegal". The illness hopefully won't kill her career, but a suggestion like that from her probably would - especially when they've been generous

Continuing illness, which this clearly is, requires compromise on both sides and it's hard to see what else they could have done while she remains unable to fulfil the whole role
Unfortunately we can't always have everything we want all the time, but as PPs have said this really is a no brainer

I think that they've been more than reasonable.

I’m currently finding aspects of my senior role stressful (although I am trying not to take time off sick, more likely annual leave). I am thinking about going back to my old role, so a demotion, and will fully expect a pay cut commensurate with the lesser stress of the role. It wouldn’t occur to me to ask for the stressful bits of my job to be taken away from me, but to stay in role, as the stressful bits are partly why I am currently paid more.

OP, I’d encourage your friend to be grateful for the offer on the table, and take it. Sounds like it will suit her better, and be better for her life overall.