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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why actresses are now referred to as actors

90 replies

SylvieHortensis · 19/04/2021 17:00

I know it's been going on for a while but when did it start and why?

What's wrong with a woman being called an actress?

If we want a gender neutral word, why not call men actresses too?

OP posts:
AryaStarkWolf · 19/04/2021 17:03

I prefer Actor, there is no need for them to add esses on to the end of professions

Lockdownbear · 19/04/2021 17:06

Probably around the same time as the Head Master / Mistress became the Head Teacher.

CounsellorTroi · 19/04/2021 17:06

I prefer actor but don't get why there are separate awards for best male and female actor. I don't see that it is necessary. Just one award for best actor.

PicsInRed · 19/04/2021 17:06

The doctress will see you now. 👩‍⚕️

Mountainpika · 19/04/2021 17:10

Agree, OP. Annoys me, too. Why are the 'gender neutral' words the male version. Why not uses both male and female versions? Downgrading the language. OK, some people might not want to be identified as either m or f, so find another word. Another I hate is 'chair' for chairman/chairwoman. People aren't bits of furniture. English is a wonderful language. Let's keep all the words.

BrilloSolar · 19/04/2021 17:11

Because the -ess is added on and denotes female in the English language so makes more sense linguistically to use the root 'actor'.

Because there is no need to differentiate by sex when talking about someone's profession.

Trying to think of other words like this:
Air hostess/ steward has become 'flight attendant'

I'm female and a landlord and would never call myself a landlady.

Is waiter/ waitress still used in job adverts/ contracts, or is something like 'server' used?

1Morewineplease · 19/04/2021 17:13

I second the notion of only having leading actor awards for both male and female roles.

BrilloSolar · 19/04/2021 17:15

@CounsellorTroi
Yes, I was just thinking exactly that about the best male/ female actor categories. I don't think that happens in other professions does it? I know there are teacher awards - it would be very strange to have separate 'best male/ female teacher' why would you need to?

felulageller · 19/04/2021 17:15

If the best actress award was dropped women would hardly ever win.

Mountainpika · 19/04/2021 17:15

And I'd like to think that in my lifetime I'll see an end to the 'first woman /black man/black woman man/gay' announcements. It shouldn't be necessary to point that out. The best person for the job.

And why are women so often defined as '58 year old grandmother...'? Unless it's a story about her grandchildren, that's irrelevant information.

I will return to my knitting and rocking chair.

Lelophants · 19/04/2021 17:21

It's sexist. Actor is the norm and actress is 'woman version' seen as not the norm.

No, actor is a job for both sexes and both just as valuable.

thedevilinablackdress · 19/04/2021 17:22

If the best actress award was dropped women would hardly ever win.

Well that's a depressing view. Also, IDGAF about awards for acting people.

Otherwise I have so many questions...Is 'Doctor' a male default, like a actor? Or not and that's why my DM still says 'It was a lady Dr"?
And what about all those 'male nurses'???
In summary, I am generally in favour of actor, server/ waiting staff/ non gendered where there's really no need for it.

0blio · 19/04/2021 17:23

actresses and male actresses?

FastnetLundyRockall · 19/04/2021 17:32

My MIL the other day told me someone used to be a "tailoress" before she retired.

HeddaGarbled · 19/04/2021 17:35

Because ‘ess’ is a suffix, which implies that the default is male.

Love51 · 19/04/2021 17:36

Because drawing attention to our sex undermines efforts to get equal pay.

StrawberrySquash · 19/04/2021 17:38

Acting seems like one career where the -ess suffix actually means something. It has a pretty big influence on the parts you play.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 19/04/2021 17:40

I knew a female actor back in the 80s and she was definitely an ‘actor’ then.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 19/04/2021 17:57

Pretty sure I remember women like Zoe Wanamaker wanting to be called Actor precisely because adding the suffix of ‘ess’ lessened the title as far as she was concerned - made it silly and frilly - also she harked back to a distant time when Actress was a euphemism for prostitute and she thought female actors should be given the same status as male actors. On the other hand, the late Helen McCrory totally rejected Actor and wanted to be known as Actress because, according to her, in her job there absolutely is a difference between what makes and females do and how they do it.
In the words of the LA Times, If the “ess” suffix is objectionable to women who act, it’s their call.
Zoe Wanamaker’s comment was from probably about twenty years ago, so I can see where she was coming from, but I think I agree with Helen McCrory. Males and females acting are doing and inhibiting different worlds, roles and bringing different life experiences to their performances that are very much shaped by who they are. Sculptress, Authoress, Doctoress however are not particularly necessary I’d have thought as the end result (though maybe shaped and influenced by the individual) is not necessarily a wholly different thing. Overall though the LA Times has it right, I think.

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 19/04/2021 18:02

Also, do not agree with merging the Best Actor categories at all. Not until such time as there is equity in Lead Roles for men and women, the kudos of the roles being offered are the same and, more importantly, the people doing the voting are a fifty fifty split between powerful industry men and women. Until then, merging the categories would result in barely any women ever winning unless you’re Meryl Streep or Kate Winslet and almost certainly no Women of Colour. No thanks.

lljkk · 19/04/2021 18:03

Because there is no need to differentiate by sex when talking about someone's profession.

Then every male actor could have been called actress.

It feels to me like Actress has been dropped because it was perceived as somehow shameful & inferior. Normally we don't drop words so suddenly unless they have ugly connotations. That actress (or seamstress, or stewardess now have ugly connotations) -- It dismays me that actress is now a 'dirty' word.

Vive la difference!

I sometimes get impression that some feminists only want sex differences acknowledged that seem to put females at disadvantage so they can use the alleged difference in a campaigning programme.
Otherwise want to pretend all other sex differences are irrelevant to anything in the human experience. I don't know where to start in disagreeing with that. Different doesn't have to mean bad, unless you want it to.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 19/04/2021 18:19

I don’t understand the current take on this.,
To me, insisting that women who act should be called by what was traditionally the term for men who act, implies that the female role is somehow inferior to the male.
Otherwise, what is wrong with being called by the traditional term?

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 19/04/2021 18:49

It feels to me like Actress has been dropped because it was perceived as somehow shameful & inferior. Normally we don't drop words so suddenly unless they have ugly connotations. That actress (or seamstress, or stewardess now have ugly connotations) -- It dismays me that actress is now a 'dirty' word

Funny you should say that, this from that same LA Times article, apparently the ‘shameful’ connotation went right back to almost the beginning of its use, at least in. England, around late 17th early 18th century:

Actress,” it turned out, was not always the kindest of labels: It affirmed a woman’s vocation but also could be used to question her morals. Actors in general, of course, were often regarded with suspicion for breaking the workaday mold. But a particular sense of Puritan horror clung to the notion of women performing publicly -- and to the name of their newly legitimized position. In the first recorded use of the word “actress,” playwright John Dryden evoked “the trade of love behind the scene, where actresses make bold with married men.”

SylvieHortensis · 19/04/2021 19:01

If a nurse who is male becomes a "Sister" what is his title?

OP posts:
HeddaGarbled · 19/04/2021 19:07

Then every male actor could have been called actress

No, because actor is THE WORD and actress is THE WORD plus a suffix to denote female, like tigress.

We can talk about tigers in the plural and know that they could be both sexes, therefore so can actors, but tigresses and actresses can only be female.