To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

AlmostInsane, people are voting for the party likely to unseat the SNP, which in many constituencies is the tories. A vote for lib dem or Labour where I am is only going to provide an SNP win. Perhaps if the SNP lose a few votes they might (not holding my breath) realise how utterly fed up many people are at the prospect of another referendum. So fed up, in fact, that they are prepared to go against the voting history of lifetime and vote Conservative.

My dad's swithering with his postal vote at the moment - he's voted lib dem for the last twenty years but is on the verge of voting Conservative, as is DH (historically a Labour voter unless an independent catches his eye). We are not a family of tory voters, but feel so strongly that we are prepared to vote, in this election at least, for the party who stand the best chance of knocking the SNP off their perch.

Xpost

Personally, I could only ever vote with my heart. I support what I support even if it only gets three votes and the whole country is against them (IYSWIM), I couldn't ever vote for anyone I don't agree with for some kind of tactical reason. But that's just me.....

@Twiggywinkle13

Please, for the love of God, DO NOT vote for a party that vote to starve children. I don’t know in what dimension voting for the Tories is ever the lesser of two evils.

Quite.

Also, no-hope parties do sometimes win as things change over time.

Where I used to live, it was always Tory and the LDs came second, until they won at a bye-election. Labour were in 3rd place. But then it went Tory again, next time round Labour moved into 2nd place. At the following GE, Labour won and it's now regarded as a safe seat.

Change is always possible, and generally I think people should vote for the party that most represents their views. Even if they don't win, it sends a message that they can't take votes for granted and do wtf they like while they're in government.

The only exception is when people vote tactically in two-way marginal seats, where a vote for the party most likely to beat the sitting MP/MSP as a vote against the status quo and for change.

But the OP isn't in that place.

Meandering, I suppose in some way I am voting with my heart - I would never have considered myself someone who would vote Conservative but in my heart I will vote for whoever will stop the SNP steamrolling ahead with another divisive referendum.

It doesn’t matter what you call it, every single Tory vote will be taken as support of their policies regardless why people voted for it, the hypocrisy are all those saying they hate the Tories, hate Tory policy but will ‘peg their nose’ and vote for them.
Even if SNP gets in that doesn’t mean independence, it might mean a referendum but you don’t have to vote for that.
A vote for Tory is supporting every shitty thing they’ve done, lie they’ve told, the abhorrent treatment of the disadvantaged, the endless disregard for Scotland.
You can protest vote without smashing up your own moral compass.

Right... so every single Tory vote will be taken in support of their policies, but voting for the SNP doesn't mean you support their policies?

@AlmostInsane and an SNP vote is the same. I have voted for other parties in the past. Maybe in other areas of Scotland that would work, but not in Moray.

Voting Conservative in MSP elections for the first time. Scottish Tories are more centrist than English ones. I liked the way Liam Kerr opposed the hate crime bill and they are the only party that know what a woman is so lib dems are out. I want to ensure the SNP don't have a majority. A Tory majority is highly unlikely but we need more MSPs opposing the breaking up of the UK and recognising the importance of sex. There is little in their manifesto I disagree with. Previously SGP when the environment was their focus but their disdain for women and support of Yogyakarta principles as well as anti UK stance makes that a no.

I'd vote Tory. I think the SNP need a bloody nose give them a wake up call.

*to give

“The subtext of the comments about people must really hate themselves to vote Tory or the Orange Order are quite clearly out of order but pretty much par for the course for the ardent nats. “

I’m not an SNP supporter - I mentioned the orange order because they’re rife where I live and were horrendous during the referendum, but that gets ignored whenever it’s brought up.

If people want to vote conservative, and some people clearly do, then they should... but to do it tactically while stating that you hate them and their policies is massively shortsighted. That’s who you’re stuck representing you if they win and it’s part of what perpetuates this messed up party system we have.

I'm voting for Labour this time even though they might not get in my area.

I actually used to vote SNP but a pandemic is not the time for an independence referendum and given the SNP have already stated that voting for them proves Scotland wants independence is total bull to me!

I also have been horrified by some of the pandemic handling around education, early learning and the last budget amounted to less money for MH services than the year before....... 🙄

Greens isn't a option as they also want independence

Perhaps it's a reflection of the utter distress the SNP actions are causing many people. But it seems that doesn't matter because we have no moral compass and hate ourselves.

I could never vote Tory. But if pushed I wound spoil my ballot

I'm in Scotland and struggling too OP. I would never vote SNP or Green because I'm completely opposed to another referendum. But I also could never vote Tory. Labour are as useless as a chocolate teapot. It's a 2 horse race between SNP/Tory in my area and I find myself asking what's the point!

I will be voting for the independent candidate standing here. He is also my local councillor and has done a lot of good work over the last few years. He doesn't stand a chance of winning though unfortunately.

As for the party vote, I genuinely don't know. I'm tempted to spoil my paper.

If people want to vote conservative, and some people clearly do, then they should... but to do it tactically while stating that you hate them and their policies is massively shortsighted. That’s who you’re stuck representing you if they win and it’s part of what perpetuates this messed up party system we have.

Until the next Scottish election in 5 years. An independence vote is far more permanent.

Where I live the constituency MSP is a very tight labour/ SNP marginal but the rest of the west of Scotland area is a mixture of labour SNP and conservative so for constituency anything other than labour or SNP is a waste as it is a two horse race by a long way however the regional list is different I like OP don't want SNP so they won't get either vote, the SNP have made it plain that they consider voting for them a mandate for a referendum so if you don't want that, you can't vote for them, independence is for life not 4-5 years.

As an aside approx a third of SNP voters,voted for Brexit, this I can understand they truly want independence and it is logical not to swap control from Westminster to control from Brussels. 1 in 11 seats at Westminster are Scottish in EU it would be about 1 in 100 which is way way less influence

@AlmostInsane

It doesn’t matter what you call it, every single Tory vote will be taken as support of their policies regardless why people voted for it, the hypocrisy are all those saying they hate the Tories, hate Tory policy but will ‘peg their nose’ and vote for them. Even if SNP gets in that doesn’t mean independence, it might mean a referendum but you don’t have to vote for that. A vote for Tory is supporting every shitty thing they’ve done, lie they’ve told, the abhorrent treatment of the disadvantaged, the endless disregard for Scotland. You can protest vote without smashing up your own moral compass.

It's not just independence that people don't want, they are trying to avoid having a divisive referendum in the first place. The 2014 one tore families apart and saw mobs on the streets, never mind that we are coming out of a pandemic so need as strong an economy as possible without chucking loads of uncertainty about.

“Until the next Scottish election in 5 years. An independence vote is far more permanent.”

This isn’t an independence vote though and that’s the mistake everyone makes over and over again - it every election is about independence and nothing else, the country doesn’t get run properly.

That’s one of the reasons there’s no effective opposition in the Scottish parliament, because every election becomes about independence.

Voting tactically just supports that - if it’s a major issue for you, find a party that you broadly agree with that has the stance on that you agree with... don’t vote for a party that you disagree with on everything else - that’s how UKIP got votes.

But of course the SNP play every win as support for a referendum so that argument doesn't wash if you don't support independence.

Do SNP supporters at all understand the level of distress the continual threat of another referendum causes some people?

No, @reprehensibleme, they don't.

They don't have a clue.

They don’t care. They’re only interested in pushing their own agenda.

@AlmostInsane

It doesn’t matter what you call it, every single Tory vote will be taken as support of their policies regardless why people voted for it, the hypocrisy are all those saying they hate the Tories, hate Tory policy but will ‘peg their nose’ and vote for them. Even if SNP gets in that doesn’t mean independence, it might mean a referendum but you don’t have to vote for that. A vote for Tory is supporting every shitty thing they’ve done, lie they’ve told, the abhorrent treatment of the disadvantaged, the endless disregard for Scotland. You can protest vote without smashing up your own moral compass.

This type of blatant intolerance and trying to tell people what to do is almost enough on its own to persuade me to vote Conservative.

Seriously, what gives you the right to criticise other people's voting choices? Particularly with the snp's disregard for democracy and rules, and the sinister hate crime Bill and naked persons legislation (only dropped after legal action on human rights grounds).

ImNotDaveGorman - I'm in the same position. Not in Moray, a bit further South, but the same options. I've been left of centre politically all my life, but after the performance and actions of our government in this last term, I feel I cant vote with my heart this time and my vote has to men something, so I'll be holding my nose and voting Tory. I'm hoping the fact that our current SNP MSP has been noticeably useless may change others votes as well