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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Princess Anne the only female behind the hearse

538 replies

jeanne16 · 18/04/2021 07:35

While the funeral was beautiful, I couldn’t help feeling annoyed that Princess Anne was the only female to walk behind the hearse. Surely all the grandchildren could have been included. Instead we see Beatrice, Eugenie and Zara tottering along on high heels. It would have been so much better to see them take an equal place with the men.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/04/2021 19:57

Am I the only one who noticed the symmetry running through the service?

Anne broke tradition - in part with her father's blessing and encouragement. She was the only woman behind the herse. This is both because she was Phillip's daughter but also because it was a statement about breaking tradition.

This was the intent Anne's inclusion and it has to be deliberate and had to be the choice of Phillip.

Why?

Because it happened elsewhere in the ceremony.

Did you spot it?

It was most noticable for the choristers: three men and one woman. They stood in line male, female, male, male.

But it wasn't the only place it happened.

If you look closely at the end when the Royal Marine Buglers played 'The Last Post' you will notice that one of the Buglers was a woman. The one who stood in the second position...

And straight after that when the State Trumpeters of the Household Cavalry played 'Reveille' it happened again. (Note here: The fanfare of Reveille is to signify the start of a new day as one important chapter comes to a close.)

Lance Corporal of Horse Kate Sandford was the first female to take the role of State Trumpeter for a Royal Family Engagement - at Harry and Megan's Wedding. Again she was placed second in the line of the trumpeters.

It was very deliberate, conscious and a theme that ran through the day. Its about showing that Phillip was open to modernising and encouraging women to rolls which were traditionally not open to them. He WANTED to make a point about it.

As to why the other Royal women didn't march behind, it may have been their choice. But more likely because it was more about symbolism and making a point in a way which still retained its formality and regimented nature. A break from the past whilst retaining the essense of that tradition and representing Phillip's family.

Anne marched in a solemn, stern and sombre way which matched the beat of the military band. I'm not convinced that the rest of the female royals needed to also march given all this. It would have taken away from the moment and the symmetary and symbolism in the rest of the ceremony.

So much about these Royal Traditions are about symbolism and hidden layers of meaning that you have to understand the 'code' to get.

I might be way off the mark here, and barking up the wrong tree but since the dynamic was repeated four times during the funeral, I can't help but think that it was very very intential and to make a point but in a subtle understated way rather than to spark a debate about how sexist the Royal Family still are. I think that's missing the point somewhat too and not understanding what was actually going on.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 19:58

Covid rules, which the funeral abided by, wouldn’t allow Charles to walk arm in arm with them. Anything else is conjecture.

Why not Charles flanked by William and Harry then?

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:02

You'd be surprised how heavily guarded these dudes need to be. They are probably in the crosshairs of someone every minute of every day potentially. Try having all three of them lined up like ducks? They simply can't do that so they have to separate them so that their individual protection detail get time to react to protect them.

YellowGlasses · 18/04/2021 20:02

@Isthereaduckinthehouse

Covid rules, which the funeral abided by, wouldn’t allow Charles to walk arm in arm with them. Anything else is conjecture.

Why not Charles flanked by William and Harry then?

I don’t know but I assumed because it wasn’t a state funeral there was more flexibility and, whilst William might be more important to the line of succession, Prince Philip wanted his own children (who were more important to him) to be immediately behind him.
Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:04

The security involved with clearing an area before their procession would have been extensive. But yes, that's why the procession was not led by Charles and William or Charles and both sons.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:05

YellowGlasses Ah ye, that's why they were all separated.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:09

You had almost every heir to the throne walking behind that coffin. Charles, William, Harry, Andrew, Edward. Their protection detail will of course have ensured absolute security but you just never know who will turn so they have to ensure that the enitre lineage isn't taken out with nobody capable of taking on the throne.

Lockdownbear · 18/04/2021 20:15

@RedToothBrush very well spotted.

It was certainly not so much breaking tradition but moving it forward. He was more forward thinking than he was given credit for.

The Landrover was commissioned in 2003, just a year after Princess Margaret and Queen Mums funerals. I wonder if those have been the trigger for the just put me on a landrover comment.

I also wonder if the granddaughter's would have walked if it had been the big funeral as planned.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:16

George is a little young to take on Kingship yet I think! They need to protect the heirs to the throne. If they took out Charles and William, Harry's next. He won't want it. Or perhaps he might? Think it's Andrew if Harry didn't want it and then Edward? Not sure how it works when the next in lines are children.

ancientgran · 18/04/2021 20:20

It was most noticable for the choristers: three men and one woman. They stood in line male, female, male, male. They'd probably have struggled to find a male soprano as well.

ancientgran · 18/04/2021 20:20

@Isthereaduckinthehouse

George is a little young to take on Kingship yet I think! They need to protect the heirs to the throne. If they took out Charles and William, Harry's next. He won't want it. Or perhaps he might? Think it's Andrew if Harry didn't want it and then Edward? Not sure how it works when the next in lines are children.
There would be a regent but George would still be the next king.
Lockdownbear · 18/04/2021 20:21

If a child ends up on the thrown, they have a Prince Regent who steps in or at least that's my take on it.

So in George's case it would go to Harry the next adult in line, if he abdicated, the next adult behind him is Andrew.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:22

They take on massive risks when all the potential heirs appear in the same spot such as marching behind a coffin. To mitigate this, they have a 2 forward, 1 back sort of formation. They are slow marching so they are sitting ducks. They can not put all three heirs in one line.

Personally though I think that they put the cousin in between William and Harry to prevent them kicking the skulls off each other. Just my opinion. Wink

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:26

There would be a regent but George would still be the next king.

Who would be the regent then if Charles and William were assasinated for example?

Onwardsandupwardswego · 18/04/2021 20:26

Should have put Mike tindell in between

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:27

Assuming Harry says Fuck no when he's offered the job!

NeverBeenNormal · 18/04/2021 20:27

Given the wayward behaviour of Princess Margaret and her husband, it's amazing how normal their children have turned out to be. A friend's daughter was at school with Lady Sarah Chatto and she is absolutely lovely apparently - completely unstuffy.

By the way, I only found out recently that Princess Anne had a thing with Camilla's ex Andrew Parker Bowles. It must be the horses.

Babyroobs · 18/04/2021 20:33

@Isthereaduckinthehouse

Covid rules, which the funeral abided by, wouldn’t allow Charles to walk arm in arm with them. Anything else is conjecture.

Why not Charles flanked by William and Harry then?

Covid rules being followed with mourners sitting in their family groups and the poor Queen on her own, yet photos of Kate kissing Prince Charles on the front of the Dm today !!
Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 20:34

A friend's daughter was at school with Lady Sarah Chatto and she is absolutely lovely apparently - completely unstuffy. How interesting.

My great grandfather was a second cousin of a US Preident. I'm sure that he was very unstuffy too (can't verify this as I've never met him). I'm very unstuffy if it counts?

fizbosshoes · 18/04/2021 20:38

@Onwardsandupwardswego

Should have put Mike tindell in between
That's what I was thinking..... if there was really the remotest chance anything would happen !Confused
Laggartha · 18/04/2021 20:39

I wish there was an ignore poster function, just to hide the crackpots.

YellowGlasses · 18/04/2021 20:40

@Isthereaduckinthehouse

A friend's daughter was at school with Lady Sarah Chatto and she is absolutely lovely apparently - completely unstuffy. How interesting.

My great grandfather was a second cousin of a US Preident. I'm sure that he was very unstuffy too (can't verify this as I've never met him). I'm very unstuffy if it counts?

It counts to me. Smile
GlencoraP · 18/04/2021 20:40

To be fair Anne walked at the Queen Mothers funeral as did Tim Lawrence and Daniel Chatto and the current Earl Snowden who was then Viscount Linley, William and Harry

NeverBeenNormal · 18/04/2021 20:46

Isthereaduck.

A nice contrast to some who have married into the RF who seem to think that they are better than everyone else. It's the same with the aristocracy in my experience - those born into it are much more down to earth than their wives.

Princess Anne is very good company - great fun. Prince Andrew less so. I don't think that they get on.

SenecaFallsRedux · 18/04/2021 20:54

If a minor (under 18) becomes monarch, there is a regency until the monarch turns 18. Under the regency act currently in effect, the regent would be the person over the age of 21 who is the closest in line to the throne. That person is Harry, and after him, Andrew, and then Beatrice, and Eugenie.

The Act could be amended, for example, to make Kate regent. Something similar happened in 1953 when the Act was amended to allow Prince Philip to be regent during the minority of his children; otherwise the regent would have been Princess Margaret.