AIBU to not pay?

[BathTapper]

Would you pay for a service if it hadn’t been fulfilled?

Please be aware that the following is largely hypothetical. I can’t give any other detail as I’m worried it’s outing and the person providing this service is very potentially on here. Please don’t just tell me IABU for this alone.

Let’s say you hired someone to provide a dog behavioural service. So you have a dog that has a terrible recall. You hire someone who offers to help you recall your dog. You agree to pay for 4 weeks of support where they will help you get your dog to a decent level of recall. There is no exact promise that your dog will have perfect recall afterwards, but they’re a dog trainer and this is what they do.

4 weeks later and whilst you have done EVERYTHING exactly as they have suggested, dogs recall hasn’t changed. Do you still pay? They have given their time and their knowledge, but the outcome isn’t there. But it’s a dog, an independent creature. Would you pay for their time anyway and shrug it off as a loss or tell them you won’t pay as they haven’t fulfilled the goal?

Thanks

Yes I have said that I am going to pay and fully understand, thank you

It's sleep training isn't it? I think you'd have to refer to your contract.

Its only been 4 weeks. Perhaps need to persevere with techniques.

@VodkaSlimline not sleep training no! Other PPs a bit closer with an educational related thing.

@Hankunamatata yes you’re probably right, I think I’m just stressing and focusing on the wrong area. Going to pay and reassess today

But not exactly education for a child, please don’t anyone start having a go saying I am trying to do something awful to my child and bully them into anything!

I’m going to leave this now. Thank you all so much for helping me to see sense. I appreciate it!

Yes. This is their income. I work in broadband repair and if someone's broadband isn't fixed by the end of the day I still expect to be paid. Sorry OP but you're being totally unreasonable here not to pay.

I would recommend you check out Zak George on YouTube. He has fantastic dog training videos which could really help

I would pay but expect some further advice around trying something different. Yes they have their time etc but its not worked and it's a bit shit, if that was me I would be offering something in addition and I know other people that would because it's a professional pride thing as well as the risk of bad reviews etc.

I once had a non sleeping baby, it was awful (waking up every 90 min still at 7 months) and we got a sleep trainer. She had lots of 'personal issues' and was generally shit and her 'advice' didn't work. I gave up with her and got another one but the second one I made sure to check what would happen if it didnt work. She said she would give a further session at reduced cost and if that still didnt work would give me a refund of some of the money

Of course you pay. It’s not their fault your dog can’t learn. I say that as a dog owner.

@BathTapper how dare you be so bloody reasonable, this is AIBU dontyaknow
You ask for advice, then you argue with us for 20 pages
After 20 pages, you add a drip feed
We then pile on again
Honestly, it's just not cricket
MN has gone down hill
😃

You go to a doctor with an ailment. The doctor exams you does a few tests, but can’t diagnose the ailment and tells you there is nothing inherently wrong with you and you’ll fine. Go home and rest. Do you pay?

You are feeling that life is getting on top of you. You go to a psychologist for several therapy sessions. After the last session you feel just as stressed as you did several weeks before. Do you pay?

You have a debilitating pain in your lower back. You have trouble sleeping and your mobility is poor. You see a physio once a week for a month. After the month, you’re still in pain, have trouble sleeping and still have mobility issues. The physio didn’t help your back trouble. Do you pay?

You are being sued. You hire a lawyer. The lawyer says you have a strong case. You lose. Do you pay your lawyer?

I paid thousands for my daughter to have a cranial helmet made because she had a flat head. She wore it for six months and, although better, she still has a flat head. There were no guarantees and I went through it knowing that. I still paid the company and would never have thought not to. You need to pay them.

If this is dyslexia look at word hornet book. You just buy the book and work through it

As I said I would, I’ve paid and we’ve had a chat. I Fully understand that it isn’t the service providers fault, it’s just frustrating when you pay for a service and see no change whatsoever!

Thanks all, I’ll leave it here.

@AWamBamBoom ha ha ha! I think that’s what some people would have preferred on here!

Yes. They’ve fulfilled a service.

Of course you still pay, unless there was a guaranteed outcome then you are paying for the service not results. If you sent your child to piano lessons and they didn’t care about piano/ weren’t musical and we’re still bad at piano would you expect that for free?

Honestly can’t believe this was even a question.

To be fair to OP she's clearly said she's going to pay.

Yes you pay. I used to offer a similar hypothetical service and actually what I did in cases like this where I believed someone had followed my instructions but hadn't seen results (as opposed to clients who expect miracles despite not changing their own behaviour or following instructions) I would extend the time working with them and use different tactics. I would ask for regular feedback to understand how the dog was responding to the different techniques and then I always found clients to be satisfied with the results. Sometimes 4 weeks (e.g.) isn't long enough. Some dog's behaviour is tougher to crack. But with time and a change of technique I never left clients unsatisfied.

Does any of that apply in your case at all?

Actually I think it depends on the agreement up front and specific situation.

If the outcome relies on another person’s input then there are limitations.

Eg - tutor to get child through 11+ then the onus is on the tutor to provide training and your child to be a participant and be educationally able. I’d pay in that case 100%

If someone said they’d get rid of bees in my loft but it would take 4 weeks and after 4 weeks I had bees then I wouldn’t.

No I would not pay.
Because anyone could say they are a dog trainer and just go around not really knowing what they are doing and giving customers information that is not practical/relevant to the breed/working.
Not would i,as the trainer,expect to be paid if I failed to do my job .

It depends on exactly what was promised and whether you were falsely promised success. If you were told your dog would have perfect recall then that would be false advertising. If however you were told that this training course has been successful in many dogs then that would be different. Without knowing exactly what the service was it's hard to say really. No improvement whatsoever is clearly disappointing. Perhaps they should offer you a free extra session as a goodwill gesture.

So, someone books 10 weeks of ballet classes for their child. After 10 weeks they refuse to pay for the sessions because their child spent most of the lessons faffing around with their friend and didn't really want to engage in the class despite my best efforts to make teaching classical ballet technique interesting and engaging? They delivered the sessions and their methods as promised. Different if the professional didnt turn up to some of them, or spent the session time browsing mumsnet (!)