to retrain at 44 years old.

[wannabeeot]

I'm 44 and was made redundant in January; I've wanted a career change for some time. I studied for a second degree with the OU in Health and Social Care.

I have applied to do a Masters in Occupational Therapy, an area I've been interested in for some time. I did well in the interview but the course was oversubscribed so I am on a waiting list. I am now doing a part-time job as a support worker working with people with learning disabilities. While it is not an OT role I think there are lots of transferable skills between the two i.e patience, empathy, good listening, and problems solving skills. It has also been really eye-opening working with vulnerable people and hearing the stories of some of the people that we work with. Also, many of them have had input from OTs to help them navigate their lives.

It is unlikely a place will come up for September but I intend to get my application in as soon as the course is launched to hopefully secure a place for 2022. However, this will mean I was been 46 when I start (eek). I don't feel this age or look it and I'm reasonably physically fit.

So my AIBU is, am I unreasonable to ask for people's experiences of a career change later in life? Am I delusional?

Also, if there are any OTs out there I would love some advice on things I can do to prepare for a career in OT. If I have to wait until September 2022 I want to make sure my time is utilized as effectively as possible, I feel like I am stuck in limbo at the moment.

I was your age when I changed career and I juggled a job, two courses and volunteering over a couple of years to do it. I have never regretted it even for one second, I would have regretted not making the leap. Go for it!

Absolutely follow your dreams and go for it. I'm 51 and qualified as a nurse 2 weeks ago.

You clearly are keen and very determined; you're thinking ahead and come over as deeply committed to this career path, OP. You should absolutely go for it! You have 20 years left to work and why not do it in a role that you enjoy and where you can make so much difference to a person's life.

The guidance and advice of my OT helped me very much. I imagine it will be a rewarding job to have.

@HikeForward

I will give 100% so there is no way I would give because the course was challenging or putting me out of my comfort zone or because I had not fully researched what I was entering into - basically, things that are within my control

It’s great you’re so determined and committed.

But keep in mind people don’t always fail through lack of research or determination, or any fault of their own. My friend (a former teacher) failed her OT Masters because she didn’t quite make the grade (despite giving it 100%!)

The Masters has (or at least had back then) a minimum pass rate for each assignment, assessed presentation and viva. I think it was 10% higher than the pass rate for the BSc OT course and she scored just under on the viva. As she’d failed twice she was kicked off the course (as many others had been before her). They gave her the option of transferring to a part time BSc but she didn’t want the extra years of study, with no guarantee of a pass at the end.

I’ve known some people ask for a secondment into OT, could that be an option? Eg get a job as an OTA and ask for a secondment so you don’t have to re-apply next year?

Please stop giving advice as clearly you are not well informed. Occupational Therapy is a registered profession and therefore the Universities have a duty to ensure that any person qualifying is competent and meets the standards of practice required.

Do you mean an OTA got onto the apprenticeship rather than doing the uni route? This is offered by some trusts but not all, yet. It's not possible to be "seconded" into being an OT; It's a registered profession

Yes, she was an OTA at the time I think (or a Physio assistant on an OT/PT assistant rotation). The Trust had a limited number of uni places for employed OTAs and physio assistants to study for a BSc OT degree whilst still working part time. So she got a degree at the end of it (and became a registered OT). She called it a secondment but it was probably an apprenticeship like you say? It wasn’t the diploma route as they’d stopped that at least a year before.

I learnt a bit about OT theory through helping friends revise. But what I can’t get my head round is what OT actually is? On one hand it’s ‘promoting independence via meaningful activity’ on the other a sort of life coaching that draws on everything from psychology to medical models. On some wards it’s all providing equipment or driving to patients’ homes to check the equipment is suitable? Or am I wrong and there’s a universal type of OT?

I find it odd my OT friends can’t explain what OT is without resorting to jargon like ‘occupational performance’, ‘habituation’, ‘ADLs and PADDLES’ (everyday tasks apparently; yet to other professions these abbreviations are seen as meaningless ways of stating something super simple and obvious)! Why don’t OTs just say ‘everyday activities’?

I know all professions use abbreviations and jargon but it’s fairly universal so every nurse, doctor, pharmacist, physio, psychologist and other medics know what it means?

One of my friends fast-tracked from a different medical profession into OT via the Masters (she has a BSc in a well respected medical field but wanted a change and chose OT). She claims OT (as a profession) is a psyeudo-science suffering from an ‘identity crisis’ as people think it’s all basket weaving?? So the OT profession (in her opinion) tried to make itself sound more scientific by coming up with complex models and theories (Kielhofner etc) and jargon that sounds very complicated until you un-pick it.

Another friend started OT on a Band 5 rotation, said it was all discharge planning and ‘conveyor belt’ assessments. Then she went into a different type of OT and loves it! She takes groups of patients out to do activities and works closely with physiotherapists, follows them up in the community etc. It sounds like an entirely different profession by the way she describes it.

Sorry if this sounds negative, I don’t mean to put anybody off the profession. I just think the OP should try to get as much OT experience as possible before reapplying, in all different settings, as every OT job sounds so very different?

OP can you shadow some OTs or get some work experience? Also learn the current ‘buzz words’ (whatever they are) my OT friends used to talk about how using the right buzz words was the difference between passing and failing an interview.

From friends who did the MSc course, they both said the placements were when they learnt the most. Placements on the MSc are limited compared to the BSc and placement success often seemed to depend on how well they got on with their team and supervisor, rather than their clinical expertise or competence. I got the impression it’s a hard course to manage if you have a family or commitments as they expect you to take placements in different counties or ‘role emerging’ placements due to not having enough placement offers (my friend failed one because they put her in a care home with no other OTs and told her to promote the OT role to staff who sadly didn’t want to know!) The care home had activity workers who didn’t like her changing anything.

Please stop giving advice as clearly you are not well informed. Occupational Therapy is a registered profession

I know it’s a registered profession. And I’m well informed as I have OT friends, have worked with many OTs and work in a medical profession myself (alongside OTs).

I just find it a puzzling profession and hoped some OTs could shed light on it (and help the OP get onto a course as she sounds like she’s desperate to study it!)

I know a couple of PPs have suggested this already but I'd say a support worker role specifically in OT/PT would really give you a head start. You learn so much theory, terminology etc on the job.

I don't know if it's different outside London but I've found it really easy to swap around and get experience in different areas of therapies as there's a lot of demand. Having gained all this experience though, I've now changed my mind and want to do SLT! Good luck, OP.

@HikeForward

Do you mean an OTA got onto the apprenticeship rather than doing the uni route? This is offered by some trusts but not all, yet. It's not possible to be "seconded" into being an OT; It's a registered profession

Yes, she was an OTA at the time I think (or a Physio assistant on an OT/PT assistant rotation). The Trust had a limited number of uni places for employed OTAs and physio assistants to study for a BSc OT degree whilst still working part time. So she got a degree at the end of it (and became a registered OT). She called it a secondment but it was probably an apprenticeship like you say? It wasn’t the diploma route as they’d stopped that at least a year before.

I learnt a bit about OT theory through helping friends revise. But what I can’t get my head round is what OT actually is? On one hand it’s ‘promoting independence via meaningful activity’ on the other a sort of life coaching that draws on everything from psychology to medical models. On some wards it’s all providing equipment or driving to patients’ homes to check the equipment is suitable? Or am I wrong and there’s a universal type of OT?

I find it odd my OT friends can’t explain what OT is without resorting to jargon like ‘occupational performance’, ‘habituation’, ‘ADLs and PADDLES’ (everyday tasks apparently; yet to other professions these abbreviations are seen as meaningless ways of stating something super simple and obvious)! Why don’t OTs just say ‘everyday activities’?

I know all professions use abbreviations and jargon but it’s fairly universal so every nurse, doctor, pharmacist, physio, psychologist and other medics know what it means?

One of my friends fast-tracked from a different medical profession into OT via the Masters (she has a BSc in a well respected medical field but wanted a change and chose OT). She claims OT (as a profession) is a psyeudo-science suffering from an ‘identity crisis’ as people think it’s all basket weaving?? So the OT profession (in her opinion) tried to make itself sound more scientific by coming up with complex models and theories (Kielhofner etc) and jargon that sounds very complicated until you un-pick it.

Another friend started OT on a Band 5 rotation, said it was all discharge planning and ‘conveyor belt’ assessments. Then she went into a different type of OT and loves it! She takes groups of patients out to do activities and works closely with physiotherapists, follows them up in the community etc. It sounds like an entirely different profession by the way she describes it.

Sorry if this sounds negative, I don’t mean to put anybody off the profession. I just think the OP should try to get as much OT experience as possible before reapplying, in all different settings, as every OT job sounds so very different?

OP can you shadow some OTs or get some work experience? Also learn the current ‘buzz words’ (whatever they are) my OT friends used to talk about how using the right buzz words was the difference between passing and failing an interview.

From friends who did the MSc course, they both said the placements were when they learnt the most. Placements on the MSc are limited compared to the BSc and placement success often seemed to depend on how well they got on with their team and supervisor, rather than their clinical expertise or competence. I got the impression it’s a hard course to manage if you have a family or commitments as they expect you to take placements in different counties or ‘role emerging’ placements due to not having enough placement offers (my friend failed one because they put her in a care home with no other OTs and told her to promote the OT role to staff who sadly didn’t want to know!) The care home had activity workers who didn’t like her changing anything.

The issues you say that your friends say they have, or that you say you and your MDT have in not knowing what OT is or does, aren't apparent in any setting I've had placements or worked. But that's your experience and it's true for you, although it'scertainly not universal. It's unfortunate that you've developed the view of OT that you have, but we can't un-do that here.

Regarding placements and family-friendliness of courses, all I can say is all of my placements were in the same trust local to me, and they all fitted around my family. The role emerging placements were not because of shortages in placements, they were developed to specifically find potential new opportunities for OT in nontraditional settings and are a key part of the course.

OP you'd be better off asking on the FB groups about your specific uni/trust, to get specific first-person advice and potential shadowing opportunities. Best of luck with it all

If you're sure you want to do it, don't let age stop you. I started medical school in my mid 40's, qualified as a GP a few years ago in my mid 50's. I love my job, will never regret giving up my lucrative and cushy but mind numbingly boring job in IT to retrain.

DH is turning 47 this year and in his first year of a degree through OU to become a primary school teacher, whilst working as an LSA. Took redundancy last June. It has been a massive change for us as he was the significantly higher earner and I was on mat leave and planning a part time return, but he is the happiest I have seen him. Covid threw us all and he figured if life had to be different anyway, why not make it the absolute best life.

Time will tell how it plays out but he loves everything about his new life (although is keen to be a teacher and not an LSA) and even if he never reaches his previous earning potential, the happiness is clearly worth it (it's important to note that we can just about weather the impact though - it would be different if we were deep into poverty as a result). We all benefit from a more relaxed and happy husband and father

The issues you say that your friends say they have, or that you say you and your MDT have in not knowing what OT is or does, aren't apparent in any setting I've had placements or worked. But that's your experience and it's true for you, although it'scertainly not universal. It's unfortunate that you've developed the view of OT that you have, but we can't un-do that here

I’m glad your experiences of OT are different, it’s nice to hear positives experiences of the profession. Particularly good to know your course was family friendly and had no shortage of local placements.

Perhaps the lack of placements depends on area and how far a student is prepared/able to travel? My friends had no choice over area or placement type (the one who did role emerging was told this was a last resort as she didn’t drive and no local hospital could facilitate a placement). I do see the point of OTs establishing the profession in new places but also the pitfalls of placing a student in a centre with no senior OT support, especially if the student doesn’t fully understand their role.

My OT friends’ experiences of OT training and career progression have been mixed. I hope I didn’t give the impression they’d all struggled to qualify or failed to find a type of OT they enjoy. At least one loves being an OT now (securing her current role was a bumpy ride but I guess that’s the same in most professions). I’ve met other OTs who enjoy their jobs, and some who are still searching for their ‘niche’ OT job. And of course some who dropped out or didn’t make it to the end of training, either because they failed more than one assignment or because their expectation of OT didn’t match the reality.

My point was the profession seems very varied, not necessarily a negative, but varied to the extent it’s difficult to pin down the role of an OT unless in a specific field. Which may be why OP had difficulty with the interview; how do you describe why you want to train for a profession if the profession has so many different roles within it? Which type of OT do you pick, or do you generalise?

I don’t have a fixed view of OT as a profession, I just find it hard to understand. I find OT jargon off putting and unnecessary as it seems to alienate OTs from the wider MDT (I’m sure it’s useful within OT meetings but in an MDT it can come across as lacking substance, or trying to dress up a simple concept with fancy words!)

But I appreciate that’s just my experience and other OTs feel their role is fully understood and valued by their MDT.

Perhaps some OTs can shed more light on the profession and why some MDTs have a negative perception of it? I’d love to understand more about OT and why people are attracted to it, as well as how the rapport between OT and MDT can be improved.

Someone made an excellent point upthread, sorry forgotten who. But essentially the time is going to pass whether or not you go for the course so you might as well!!

I retrained in a health career and did a 3 year degree , graduating at age 42. The oldest person on my course was 57. My job has given me a whole new life in a different location. There are lots of people who have come late to the profession.

@HikeForward

The issues you say that your friends say they have, or that you say you and your MDT have in not knowing what OT is or does, aren't apparent in any setting I've had placements or worked. But that's your experience and it's true for you, although it'scertainly not universal. It's unfortunate that you've developed the view of OT that you have, but we can't un-do that here

I’m glad your experiences of OT are different, it’s nice to hear positives experiences of the profession. Particularly good to know your course was family friendly and had no shortage of local placements.

Perhaps the lack of placements depends on area and how far a student is prepared/able to travel? My friends had no choice over area or placement type (the one who did role emerging was told this was a last resort as she didn’t drive and no local hospital could facilitate a placement). I do see the point of OTs establishing the profession in new places but also the pitfalls of placing a student in a centre with no senior OT support, especially if the student doesn’t fully understand their role.

My OT friends’ experiences of OT training and career progression have been mixed. I hope I didn’t give the impression they’d all struggled to qualify or failed to find a type of OT they enjoy. At least one loves being an OT now (securing her current role was a bumpy ride but I guess that’s the same in most professions). I’ve met other OTs who enjoy their jobs, and some who are still searching for their ‘niche’ OT job. And of course some who dropped out or didn’t make it to the end of training, either because they failed more than one assignment or because their expectation of OT didn’t match the reality.

My point was the profession seems very varied, not necessarily a negative, but varied to the extent it’s difficult to pin down the role of an OT unless in a specific field. Which may be why OP had difficulty with the interview; how do you describe why you want to train for a profession if the profession has so many different roles within it? Which type of OT do you pick, or do you generalise?

I don’t have a fixed view of OT as a profession, I just find it hard to understand. I find OT jargon off putting and unnecessary as it seems to alienate OTs from the wider MDT (I’m sure it’s useful within OT meetings but in an MDT it can come across as lacking substance, or trying to dress up a simple concept with fancy words!)

But I appreciate that’s just my experience and other OTs feel their role is fully understood and valued by their MDT.

Perhaps some OTs can shed more light on the profession and why some MDTs have a negative perception of it? I’d love to understand more about OT and why people are attracted to it, as well as how the rapport between OT and MDT can be improved.

Communication - or lack thereof - is definitely a huge issue in healthcare, from anecdata and hard evidence in peer-reviewed papers, and of course the Francis Report and the like. I'm not sure this is the thread to discuss it tho but it's definitely a worthy subject for conversation (pun kind of intended...!)

Communication - or lack thereof - is definitely a huge issue in healthcare

Perhaps discussing communication and barriers to it would help the OP (should she decide to re-interview.)
Healthcare interviews always ask about communication and connecting with the wider MDT.

My personal perception of OT as a profession is that the profession doesn’t really know what it is, therefore borrows extensively from other disciplines, created an evidence base that doesn’t always make sense and created its own OT-specific language peppered with jargon that SOUNDS scientific but means very little to a non OT. This may have created an OT identity but how does it translate to the wider MDT? How do OTs bridge that gap? Raising awareness of the OT role and educating other clinicians was a big thing at one point.

These may be useful questions to think about for anyone considering an OT career.

@HikeForward Just to clarify, I was successful in my interview but the places had already been taken as I didn't apply until January. I am on a waiting list in case there is a dropout. I didn't fail at interview.

Go ahead and do it - my Mum had career changed at 53 after 10 years out for family reasons. Before she did it, she was incredibly low - now (7 years later) she is thriving and risen through the ranks in her career. You are never too old to change careers and/or do something you are truly passionate about. BTW I am doing a masters at the moment and part of it includes OT, it is a fascinating area so I can see why you would like to do something in that field. Good luck!

@HikeForward

Communication - or lack thereof - is definitely a huge issue in healthcare

Perhaps discussing communication and barriers to it would help the OP (should she decide to re-interview.)
Healthcare interviews always ask about communication and connecting with the wider MDT.

My personal perception of OT as a profession is that the profession doesn’t really know what it is, therefore borrows extensively from other disciplines, created an evidence base that doesn’t always make sense and created its own OT-specific language peppered with jargon that SOUNDS scientific but means very little to a non OT. This may have created an OT identity but how does it translate to the wider MDT? How do OTs bridge that gap? Raising awareness of the OT role and educating other clinicians was a big thing at one point.

These may be useful questions to think about for anyone considering an OT career.

That's a totally valid perception, but it's far from universal and it would be a shame for someone else who was considering applying for a course to think they had to get bogged down in wrangling with that for an interview based on one person's narrow perception of their workplace and the people they know. Communication does always come up in interviews, as does what one perceives the role of OT to be in whichever setting, but it it's usually more about how the interviewee communicates, why they think it's important, and how they personally define OT and how it works. I certainly wouldn't go down the route that OT is automatically misunderstood in every setting, because that's simply not true. A better way would be to explain how you personally would seek to promote the role of OT in whichever setting, in a positive way.

I don't think this thread is the place for an analysis of the role of OT because OP is asking about her age, not weighing up if she wants to be an OT. She wants to do it and has impressed at interview.

Sorry for derailing your thread, OP. I'll bow out now. Very best of luck for the course and your future career

@inigomontoyahwillcox in my local authority the social work apprenticeships are only available to existing staff.

I work in social services doing the exact same job as a social worker but don't have the technical qualification so I'm called something else. That's the way in.

That's a totally valid perception, but it's far from universal

I agree it’s not universal, but it does sadly represent of lot of the attitudes of MDTs I’ve worked in. And over the last decade I’ve worked in many, thanks to locum work and moving around.

It’s good to know other people have had more positive experiences and regard OT highly as a profession.

OP I apologise for thinking you had to re-apply, I didn’t realise you’d missed the closing date. I hope you get a place soon. In the meantime I recommend trying to get a job as an OTA or activity worker, so you can work alongside OTs and make sure it’s definitely the profession you want.
Or arrange as many shadowing opportunities as you can to get an idea of how the OT role differs in different environments. No matter how much you read up, practice is very different to theory.

I know you say money is no issue but an OT Masters is a fairly big investment (both in tuition fees, living costs and time). Being a Masters course the academic bar is held much higher than a BSc so a pass isn’t guaranteed no matter how determined you are. Having said that I don’t think age should hinder you in any way. When my friends fast tracked into OT via the Masters they said there were a handful of students aged 35-45 so it’s not as if you’re likely to be stuck with a class full of 21 year old new graduates.

I'm heading for 60 and looking for a new career. Daunting!

HikeForward, I'm sorry you have formed such a negative opinion of OT.
I've been an OT for over 30 years. I don't use jargon to justify my role. I don't need to, as I (and every other OT that I know) have very clear ideas re what we are doing.
OT is very varied, in the same way that medicine or nursing roles are different depending on which field you work in. My DS is an A and E nurse, my friend is a neonatal nurse, the 2 roles are very different.
In a brief nutshell, OT enables people to get their life back together after illness, injury or disability. That might involve teaching them to get out of bed, how to wipe their own bum again, ordering a wheelchair, making splints for their contacted hands, teaching them to use those hands again, helping them to plan and cook meals, helping them to engage with their hobbies and reconnect with social networks, helping them to rejoin the workforce. Whatever they identify as being important to them, I will work with them to regain.
It is quite shocking that you feel other professions are scathing of OT, that is not something I have encountered. In fact, if anything, I feel there is a definite move away from the prescription of drugs in primary care, (see recent government directives re pain relief) with much more emphasis being placed on social prescribing, exercise and well being. I am lucky to have an enlightened GP practice nearby who prescribe Nordic walking, nature therapy and wild swimming (brrrr) along with anti depressants.
That is occupational therapy!
I wish you all the best OP, you will definitely not be the only student in their 40's on your course. I have had lots of 40s/50s out on placement with me.
The pay is shocking but you get to work with fabulous colleagues, everyday is so different and you get a real sense of satisfaction when patients recover.

It is quite shocking that you feel other professions are scathing of OT, that is not something I have encountered. In fact, if anything, I feel there is a definite move away from the prescription of drugs in primary care

Thank you for your clear explanation of the different roles OTs do (I haven’t re-quoted it all as I’m sure the OP and any others can find it upthread).

It’s refreshing to hear a non-jargon definition of the things OTs do and I appreciate your time in explaining, thank you.

I actually don’t have a negative perception of OT, beyond what my OT friends have said. I just saw it as a mysterious profession. Your description of all the things OTs do has actually shed much needed light on it. I wish we had a list in the MDT room with this type of explanation on!

Not all professions are scathing of OT, I may have just been unlucky in working in MDTs who neither understood nor valued the OT role. In many MDTs the OT doesn’t attend MDT or handover meetings (they’re supposed to but don’t, then doctors and other professionals get irritated because they can’t find the OT when say a rehab placement has requested an urgent OT assessment and discharge is delayed. Then the MDT has bed managers and discharge coordinators on their back and get fined for bed blocking 🤭!

Then nurses offer to assess the patient instead but they’re not allowed to as the assessment is OT-specific (normally requested by a rehab OT who hadn’t met the pt). Then when the ward OT is found he/she says they have no capacity to assess for a week, or they’re on leave next day and their supervisor is at a leadership meeting so there’s a lot of frustration (and eye rolling) by the MDT as we then bear the brunt of delayed discharge. Nobody blames the individual OT more the profession in general.

My friend’s a B7 OT manager and gets so many ‘urgent requests’ for student placements she said she has to re-direct them to a separate email account. With limited numbers per room (social distancing) it’s hard to take students at the moment. I’ve seen her in tears because of the pressure to provide placements, she’d offer if she could but has to keep saying no. The universities can be quite persistent apparently.

I think the answer is more OTs are needed on acute wards (especially ones who can attend MDTs and bond with the MDT). Yet it’s a catch 22 as to get more OTs qualified you need to provide placements and covid has limited that.

Agree there’s a move away from using medications and more holistic approaches, though this hasn’t filtered down to all services yet (I’m sure it will, but trying to convince a consultant activity is as important as medication is often a losing battle).

The biggest reason I’ve observed for MDTs bring scathing about OT (and never to an OTs face) is they don’t understand why only an OT can do certain assessments. Say an OT in the community says the pt needs an AMPS assessment... there are very few OTs who are AMPS trained so it can be weeks to get the assessment done. Then the MDT are like ‘but we’ve seen the pt independently wash, dress, make meals in the ward kitchen, we’ve done the MMSE and a MOCA, they’ve been going on leave and it’s all documented. Now we have to wait for an AMPS when we need the bed desperately!’

So I can see it from all sides. Hopefully OT courses now prepare their students for these situations (there’s certainly better joint working between OT and physio than in the past). I think a lot of MDTs need educating about OT as a profession.

Hikeforward

You sound pretty negative and as people have explained that is not the perception everywhere. It is not really helpful to the OP or anyone else. It sounds as if the OT team is chronically understaffed but perhaps that is a reflection of the service you work in not valuing OT or the people in the service not valuing OT?

I don’t think I would want to work with you with your attitude.

You’ve got plenty of time ahead of you for a career, realistically we will be working until we are late 60’s so that’s another 20 years in the career!