AIBU to ask for ideas how to help DD9 who hates maths

[mathsmadness]

DD in Y5 (age 9) hates maths and gets very anxious/upset about doing any maths work! She really struggles with the fundamentals and is way behind at school. She has always been like this. While school have been sympathetic, there hasn't been that much support on this throughout infant/junior (covid has obviously not helped with this and, of course, they have 29 other children to think about in the classroom). The learning keeps moving on and I feel like DD can never catch up.

She did have a tutor once a week pre covid but with limited success for the money involved. So I'm hoping to try and fill some of the gaps myself with her. I have had stints of doing this with her before some some successes and some dramatic failures!

I was hoping to draw on mumsneters tips, resources, and inspirations to help me with this. Any ideas from teachers or parents who've been in the same situation would be brilliant.

@randomlyLostInWales
Could I ask a question about mathsfactor as I have been looking at this just now. How long does each session take for them to watch the video and do the questions etc - I'm trying to think how I'd fit something like this into our day after school. And do they have to do it every day for it to be of benefit?

@year5teacher
Interesting you say about doing the sum say 12-5 and if she counts forwards or backwards. She would always try to count backwards - it is this sort of thing that makes it clear she doesn't really 'get' it. When I tried to explain she could count forwards as it is easier she got all muddled up. I guess this is the sort of thing I should be trying to build her confidence in - rather than doing equivalent fractions!

physical objects

It seems you need to build up her confidence and go back to where she got lost. I would start by doing maths in every day life. Cooking, serving food, setting the table, there is really not much you can do that doesn't need adding up, subtracting, multiplying and dividing.

Sharing things out need fractions. Start with grapes or apples or something, here are three apples, if we each have on how many left. If we only have one apple and cut it in half how much do the two of us get each.

Pouring drinks for everyone and work up to
How much is left in the kettle once you have made mother a cup of coffee.

Don't think of it as a lesson just stuff you do as you go along.

Then maybe a really good tutor to help catch her up so she can be confident in the classroom, too.

Thought of a third thing, get get to explain it to you. That will have novelty value and make things a bit different. Keep it light and don't push too much til she can explain everything g on the syllabus to you.

Google the names , the names in maths have changed a lot but the sums still work out the same way. Good luck

For times tables get the CD and sing along.

I use technology too much these days to do sums in my head and find myself in my sixties chanting through the tables 7, 14, 21, 28 to find out four times seven.

Maths becomes easier if you know number bonds to 10 and tines tables off by heart.

A nice way of learning times tables is to put eg the 3 x table answers on the stairs and say the sequence every time you go up and down. Really helped mine learn them. Everyone in the family can do it. Then you can remove some numbers so she’s remembering the pattern. Move onto the next one when she’s fluent.

Would it help her to draw a number line for working out problems? DS struggles with mental arithmetic but can multiple and divide easily if has a number line as it helps him to focus.

When I tried to explain she could count forwards as it is easier she got all muddled up

This is where numicon helps

You take 12 and 5 and put them together and you can clearly see the difference.

Rather than say coins where is just lots on a table

Your DD sounds exactly like my DD who is the same age. She’s always struggled with maths and always been far behind. She gets the same with the TTRS game, just gets frantic and guesses the answers. I genuinely think it’s dyscalculia. We struggled enormously throughout the lockdowns to teach her maths, she became so frustrated and upset by it.

We have tried flash cards, playing cards, an app called Komodo maths which I paid for, Carol vorderman’s maths website again which I paid for and even a private tutor at one point during the last lockdown. She gets angry and storms off a lot of the time. Sorry I haven’t offered much help, I just know how you feel.

A tutor might not be the best idea as little and often can work better. Do ten minutes every day. Go over and over the basics. Tables, the four main operations and number bonds if she's not secure with those.

Might also be worth asking the school to assess her for discalculia.

Good luck!

You sound like you’re doing a grand job though. I really struggled with maths and would cry every Sunday dreading the times table test on a Monday and I only learnt tables through rote. In 2000 mist beige I qualified to be a teacher the Gov introduced a numeracy test. I dreaded having to sit it. A maths teacher at the school I was training at helped me to pass by explaining the basics. Made me realise I was never taught those properly so I kept struggling. DH and DD are excellent mathematicians. They just ‘see’ patterns, DS and I not so much!

Would it be worth speaking to her teacher to explain how she’s lacking in confidence? She’ll get there!

And do they have to do it every day for it to be of benefit?
I think they recommended 5 sessions a week - but we tried for every day which seemded to suit our children especially DS who did seem to forget concepts otherwise.

How long does each session take for them to watch the video and do the questions etc - I'm trying to think how I'd fit something like this into our day after school.

Depends what they were doing - I think usually 15-20 minutes.

With DS there was a huge can't do maths thing to get over at start which took additional time and encouragement but sometimes they did struggle and it was longer sometime they were happy just slow. DS hates to be hurried with anything so did need to allow for things to take longer though they often didn't rather than trying to fit into a time slot. Often went for you do this before you get TV - so it it takes a long time there's less TV time.

There were days it had to be fitted around clubs and that could be an issue but we found ways to work around.

We did started in summer holidays with summer school which took pressure off fitting it in initally with school routines.

They often did, later on, winter and summer schools in addition in the main bit - that was after their confidence and enthusiam had increased and sometimes they'd take longer to play the games after the lesson bit.

I think they have a free trial at the moment - so good way of seeing if it's for you.

All of them are considered really good at maths now - all top set and older two are expected to do A-level maths.

I can also recommend Numicom. They use this at my DC’s school and it’s great for visual learners.

I do think basics can be poorly taught or rushed through or just not throughly grasped and they are being built on all the time.

It was a shock to us to realise DD1 hadn't grasped number placement it was why 41 and 14 could be easily mixed up for her - DS and DD2 freqently need reminidng what time tables were - groups not just random chanted numbers.

Numicom and mathsfactor helped reinforce those absolute basics for our children though there are many ways of doing that.

Might also be worth asking the school to assess her for discalculia

As a secondary maths teacher it is worth pointing out that this may be fruitless as it is not really considered a condition. Certainly, unlike dyslexia, it’s not generally assessed and diagnosed (you may find rare exceptions). Dyscalculia (difficulty with maths) is generally found to be down to either poor teaching in the foundation stages leading to difficulties progressing later on, or another SEN (e.g. slow processing speed, poor working memory, which particularly impact things like mental arithmetic making it look like the difficulty is with mental arithmetic).

Tutor hunt is a good place to look.
Someone like this who is a primary specialist, not someone who offers GCSE or higher.
www.tutorhunt.com/users/4873544335365/

Agree that discalculia thing is fruitless.

I agree completely with all the people saving regular practice of the basics is the key. Adding / Subtracting / Multiplying/ Dividing at what ever level is appropriate.
However I don't agree with one of your first messages where you mentioned changing the dynamic of the house making her do something she isn't good at / hates doing. Isn't that a very important lesson to learn - if there is something important you find hard then you need to do more of it , not try and avoid it?

Look into the Montessori method (from the start) as it is very touch and visual based which makes abstract concepts easier to understand later on. It may look too young but as someone else said already, with math you must have solid foundations. You cannot build a tower if the bottom blocks are missing.

Maths Factor is awesome. It has a daily session which is a short video from Carol (just a minute or so long), a fun warm up game, then between 12 and 24 questions depending on level. It has number games which you unlock as you progress and obviously there are reward charts and stars and so on. My children do it every day and really seem to enjoy it. It takes less than 10 mins a day so it isn't a big thing to fit in. Also it is amazing how much progress they make doing 5 to 10 minutes each evening. There is a free trial available I think.

Try another tutor until you find one who builds her confidence.

Op a personal tutor is worth their weight in gold, key into your dd, teach her specially what she needs... And work on the basics and takes it out of your hands.

Ours was recommended word of mouth, ask around local Facebook pages..
Tell them it's one of off to see if dd clicks with them..

You can try google tutors in your local area

But I'd ask on local Facebook sites first..
It's a joy, every week all maths done with tutor.. We went back to basics also.

I can see that baking has already been suggested - have you considered finding craft activities for her to do which would use Maths skills.

It would give maths a purpose and if you choose crafts aimed at older ages would help maintain some space she can practice maths without her younger sister which could boost her confidence. Hopefully it would also be fun!

OP I just wanted to say that you sound like an amazing mum.
I'm 33 and I have struggled with maths all my life. Was very behind in school, and to be honest never caught up. It's affected my whole life, confidence and self esteem.

I wish my parents did what you're going to do, or got me a tutor.

Your DD is very lucky :) don't let her be like me!