Would you trust someone with these convictions?

[goodbyeyellowbrick]

Would you trust a female who at age 17 got these two convictions -

• breach of the peace domestic
• assault to injury domestic

And then at 19 got these two convictions -

• communications act domestic
• drink driving

Would you trust her? She is 30 now and has had no issues with the law since and has seemed to turn her life around. Would you still think she was the same person though inherently?

@GreyhoundG1rl

Nobody cares what you were doing at 19; this was a young woman in a very damaging relationship. Different story completely Jesus, this is rude! Nobody knows the full story behind this person's court appearances either. How do you know her relationship was damaging? They could have been as bad as each other, who knows? You're literally blaming a man for her being up before the beak 4 times before the age of 19...

Really? How do I know it's damaging? Probably because in a healthy relationship, you don't hit each other So yes, for a 19 year old, that's probably pretty damaging.

I also never blamed a man once.

*I agree. A 19 YO who's been in trouble, especially when it's very likely to have been due to the relationship they were in, because lets face it, a very large proportion of women who have been in trouble with the law have only really been in that position due to influence/coercion of a man, is a very different person once they're a decade older and appeared to have 'gone straight'.

Plus those convictions are very much of the 'argument that has got out of hand' variety rather than a person who sets out to break the law and attack/rob/hurt other people.

Many of us make mistakes when we're young. Not all of us get caught*

This

She could have been the angry one doing the damage... 🤷🏻‍♀️

There's a huge difference between a 17 year old and a 30 year old. Why wouldn't I give her a shot? People have pulled themselves out of worse holes. Surely we want people to turn their lives around.

I work for disclosure Scotland.

The Management of Offenders (Scotland) Act 2019 which was introduced in November 2020 has changed the period of time when convictions become spent. However with regard to higher level certificates (Standard, Enhanced & PVG) different rules apply, and certain spent convictions will show dependent on the nature of the offence.

Spent convictions on higher level certificates are divided into 3 categories:-

Category 1 – always disclose

Category 2 – disclosed for 15 years after the date of the conviction, 7.5 years if applicant under 18 on date of conviction.

Category 3 – does not appear on any level of certificate when it becomes spent under MOA.

All of the convictions mentioned would be classed as category 2 offences. The convictions at 17 would not appear on any level certificate as she was under 18 on the date of conviction, and it was more than 7.5 years ago.

However the convictions at 19 though spent under MOA and will not show on a Basic Disclosure, will still be disclosed on a higher level certificate as she was 18 or over on the date of conviction and the 15 years have not elapsed as yet.

However as these convictions are spent under MOA and are not category 1 offences, then they would be classed as appealable spent convictions.

She never need disclose the convictions when she was 17 - no matter what role. So that leaves her only having to disclose the communications act and drink driving. She will be absolutely fine getting into social work.

@mooonstone just reading through the comments, and yours is typical of an ignorant 20 year old. If your hardship in life is that you had to stay home for a year and watch Netflix then you are so much more lucky than most, some people have actually been through trauma. You are the perfect example of a persons brain not being fully developed before the age of 25.

'My moral code wouldn't allow me to' - I imagine this type of comment you will look back on in ten years and cringe at when your brain is fully developed, like the rest of us are doing right now at your expense. Your attitude is ignorant, unforgiving and completely naive.

hazeleyedlady
no

and all the posters making excuses "oh she was soo young"

I was married with a baby at age 19. Its an adult. A person does not change THAT much in personality over the years.'

I have to laugh at this comment, it's funny that you see being married and having a baby at 19 as some sort of achievement? Surely being in dire situations and fucking up and spending time in police cells and going up in front of judges, and then giving your life a complete overhaul, and then training to work in a profession where your experiences could help others is a much bigger achievement?

I mean...any woman can get married and have a baby. It's very nice and all but certainly not classified as an achievement.

@weetus

hazeleyedlady no

and all the posters making excuses "oh she was soo young"

I was married with a baby at age 19. Its an adult. A person does not change THAT much in personality over the years.'

I have to laugh at this comment, it's funny that you see being married and having a baby at 19 as some sort of achievement? Surely being in dire situations and fucking up and spending time in police cells and going up in front of judges, and then giving your life a complete overhaul, and then training to work in a profession where your experiences could help others is a much bigger achievement?

I mean...any woman can get married and have a baby. It's very nice and all but certainly not classified as an achievement.

Agreed

I would like to think that we can all get away from who we were at 19 years of age, I'd be interested in knowing how she has changed. Did she do counselling? Is she careful about who she has around her? Does she seem a calm person who is in good control of her own temper?

What do you need to trust her with? I guess it would really depend tbh

@goodbyeyellowbrick sorry didn't read all of your posts.
In that situation, I would say that her past experiences probably give her an edge that many won't have.
Her life experiences have been turbulent, she will understand the dynamics in shitty relationships, how things can happen, and that will be excellent for understanding, and really being able to understand the dynamics of some of the families that social workers deal with.
She can use her experiences for the greater good.

A small part of me would wonder a little, how she will deal with abusive people who turn on her because that's all part of the job. Dealing with aggressive and threatening parents, sometimes even children who are aggressive. Is she able to deal with that without biting back and remain professional?

Is she aware that's a concern? Has she provided any sort of reassurance that she can manage these situations professionally?

And yes...I would trust her a decade on.

Many people with dubious backgrounds far worse have become social workers. It's one area in which depending on the role, it can be seen as life experience and turning themselves around. Which is often what they are trying to encourage with their clients.

Social worker interviewers will be so used to this situation. The amount of people who have such pasts and want to get into SW/ mental health/ psychology fields is amazing

All these people who are saying she was a teenager, theirs minds are still developing. I bet you're all happy for your 18yr old kids to have passed their driving tests and be in charge of something that has the potential to harm.

People can change; especially from adolescent to adult.

If I listed all the crimes I’d committed when young nobody would ever employ me. Sheer luck I never been caught so nobody would ever have to know since I turned my life around a decade ago.

Lots of people do the things she’s done, less people get caught doing them.

I was married with a baby at age 19. Its an adult. A person does not change THAT much in personality over the years

Nah of course they don't. A 15 year old has exactly the same outlook on life as a 65 year old

Oh dear. As I said above, the views on this thread are exactly why convictions should only be disclosed in the most limited circumstances because people are totally judgey and have no concept of how the other half lives.

@wizzywig

All these people who are saying she was a teenager, theirs minds are still developing. I bet you're all happy for your 18yr old kids to have passed their driving tests and be in charge of something that has the potential to harm.

Well that's why they do a driving test.

Whether there should be a personality/maturity test for driving is for another thread.

I’d want to ask a lot of questions and find out more if I was going to employ them in a position of trust. No convictions for ten years might well mean a complete change of character or it might possibly mean that they’ve got away with it for ten years. If you asked all the MNers with violently abusive partners/relatives neighbours whether their abuser had received a criminal conviction for their actions, what percentage would say yes?

The London Bridge 2019 attacker was attending a conference on offender rehabilitation, having previously gone through their course intended to turn his life around. One of the men who heroically fought back to defend the public had also just completed the same programme.

One that carries a life sentence, murder or culpable homicide usually

Trust her to do what? Context needed.

Yes qualified as a social worker following release

Sorry my quotes and alt nickname failed. I was responded to previous questions about social worker on a life licence.

She may well make a better social worker than someone who's led a sheltered middle class life. It's impossible to say as some people genuinely turn their lives around and others don't. But she was young at the time, I would wonder what the background and parenting were like. If she came from care for example, or neglectful parents, there could be mitigating factors. Anyway I wouldn't worry too much, i'm.sure they will have gone into all this before letting her onto a social work course.

I'm sorry not rtft.

What area of social work is she going into? She's still got to find a job and may struggle depending on area. I know someone who got turned down following warner interview based largely on things in her ex partners past.

Also my DP has 5 similar convictions from age 17 and 18 which have caused him difficulties getting certain jobs.

On a personal level what you've described wouldn't stop me trusting someone, but that's not really what matters here

I’m your average early 20 year old that hasn’t had the best start to adult life, with thanks to the pandemic and it’s ramifications elsewhere. However I’m not driving around drunk or getting into fights, as my moral code wouldn’t allow me to. We all go through things but we don’t all lash out like this.

Let's hope you aren't planning to do any caring role with that attitude! Just be grateful that you have no idea of what some people have to deal with. For example did you know that 95% of women in prison are victims of sexual abuse? Some people's lives are so awful that they turn to drugs and crime to blot out the pain. It's nothing to do with lack of moral code. Also the justice system is far from just. Someone from a nice background who committed this kind of offence is a lot more likely to get away with it than someone disadvantaged. These types of minor offence usually are dealt with by magistrates, who have no legal training. They won't get a jury trial. Most magistrates are conservative, male, white and old. Suggest you try to educate yourself