Relative found dead after a few days.... I think we are bad people

[MariaAngustias]

We have a distant relative who was a recluse, could never interact socially with others and probably these days would be classified as aspergers or similar but was just thought of as a bit odd and a loner. Perfectly nice person just did not wish to interact and was very uncomfortable and unable to make eye contact. To cut a long story short she was found dead in her house after quite a long time and we only just found out after 3 months of her lying in the morgue. We are of course feeling like the shittest family every and wondering what we could /should have done. As far as we were aware, she had a good job, retired and had a nice home and car and just kept herself to herself. Apart from a Christmas card both ways and a letter we did not have contact. God, are we the worst people on the planet. If we had known she was ill we would of course helped. She died of natural causes. We are paying for a funeral and sorting out everything but I just feel so bad, so sad for her that she ended up like that and the only reason she was found was that the postman realised there was a mountain of mail... It is a huge shock and it is making me think we should have made more of an effort. I have other relatives i have lost touch with - this is so hard. She lived fairly local. It is too late to help her now and we have to live with this.

Why do you say the relative was 'found dead after a few days"? Then go on to say it was three months??

While it's sad to hear of someone lying undiscovered for so long it doesn't affect the person who died. So don't feel bad for them. They aren't aware of it.

If you could turn the clock back would you realistically see yourselves being closer? I imagine not as you really can't force yourself on people who are loners.

We’ve had this in our family. Not quite the same but we only found out about her death via a paper announcement. It was sad as we made an effort with her over the years but she dipped in and out of our lives but we would have liked to have supported her and been there to pay our respects. You can only do what you can do.

No you are not, she lived the life she was comfortable with, you respected her choice even if it didn't seem right for you.

@GreatestSh0wUnicorn

Sounds like she was happy living this way and was happy with no contact.

Can you ever really know that? If I died or went missing at the start of the six week summer holidays then the first people would know would be when I didn't turn up at work in the autumn term. I rarely get any letters, nobody phones me and nobody calls round. It's not that I don't want to socialise or keep in touch with relatives but the relatives I have don't want to keep in touch with me.

I used to work in finance and the families came swarming after death

Well duh! They’re hardly going to be involved with someone else’s finances before they die unless they have POA. Swarming? Or they are sorting out their deceased’s estate? Suspect the latter.

I'm surprised she didn't have an address book that the people who found her could contact you from. 3 months in the morgue seems crazy! Sorry for your loss

@MariaAngustias The fact that you feel so bad/shitty/guilty shows you're not bad people.

If this lady chose to keep herself to herself, and rarely interact with anyone, there's nothing you could have done.

Some people DO keep themselves to themselves, HATE interacting (apart from an occasional 'hello' or handwave,) never socialise or visit people (or have anyone visiting them.) And that is their right. Some people just prefer living this way...

It works for some people, as being alone most of the time (and having very few people at their funeral,) is a small price to pay, for a peaceful life, with no drama, no users, no arseholes, etc etc...

So don't worry. This relative would have been perfectly happy with her life, and would have reached out to you if she had wanted to.

As a pp said dying alone doesn't mean she suffered. For many people the worst case scenario is dying in hospital or a care home.

You arranged a funeral and you did your best by her. Anyone who says otherwise is judging you based on no knowledge of the person involved.

I’m not a recluse by any means, but I’m introverted (I know some MNetters feel that’s an overused term, but it’s genuinely how I am) and I’ve lived alone for more than 20 years now, and I will always live alone. I’m aware of and comfortable with the fact that this means I will probably die alone and not be found straightaway. That’s the consequences of living my life how I choose, on my terms. I can’t bear attention and people fussing over me. I was recently thinking about my father’s death- he died in hospital with 16 people there watching him in his final hours and his last breath. I’d hate that. I’d much rather die alone than die like that.

It sounds like the op’s relative wanted the level of isolation/lack of contact that she had, and any efforts to increase contact would have been seen as intrusive and unwelcome. Therefore I don’t think the op has any reason to feel guilty.

A few people have commented on how ‘nobody would want to be left dead at home for days and in a morgue for months’ but they’re clearly people who can’t put themselves in others shoes and who don’t understand that not everyone wants the same things from life as they do. People who live alone long term and who don’t intend to change that and who live independent lives without much close contact are generally quite pragmatic people who have given the situation a lot of thought.

Frankly, the thought of my relative finding me dead, or having to watch me die (both of which I have experienced), is much more distressing than the thought of nobody witnessing it and the body being dealt with by the authorities.

For anyone who hasn't seen it nor read the piece, Carol Morley addresses this topic in her documentary but about a younger woman with a very different life and who died of natural causes at the age of 38, to lie undiscovered for years: Joyce Carol Vincent: How could this young woman lie dead and undiscovered for almost three years?

John shook his head and sighed. "She died of neglect. We all loved her, but not enough to stop her dying."

On the train back to London, I reflected on how nobody she knew really worried about Joyce when she fell out of touch with them, as she often did – they just thought she was off somewhere having a better life than they were. Her aspirations and desires, her immaculate way of presenting herself, masked any deeper troubles she may have had.

www.theguardian.com/film/2011/oct/09/joyce-vincent-death-mystery-documentary

@FortunesFave she was found dead after a few days and she was taken to the mortuary 3 months ago and has been there since as no-one knew if she had any relatives. My parents kept in touch and had invited her over to see them but it was clear she did not wish to have other than minimal contact. She volunteered at a charity shop once a week and had neighbours she knew - she had lived in the same house all her life, first with parents then on her own. She had her own life, she had a car, she was not old and we had no reason to think she was ill or vulnerable. I have a lot of relatives I have lost touch with or have little contact with. Anyway, thanks to everyone who has replied and I think it is better now that I ask for this thread to be deleted.

If she was autistic she may not have wanted distant relatives intruding on her life. It's sad that that no one noticed her absence but you're not to blame for that. Don't feel like a bad person as you weren't to know x

@cariadlet

I think that those posters saying how sad it is are projecting their own feelings onto the situation.

Loneliness is very sad. Unwanted social isolation is very sad. As a society, we need to do more to combat this. As individuals, we need to look out for relatives and neighbours (not just the elderly) who are at risk of this.

But living alone and having little social contact is not sad if that is what the individual genuinely wants. Just because it would be an awful situation for you, it doesn't mean that it would be an awful situation for everybody.

I completely agree! The poster who said that a Christmas card once a year is "pretty poor" needs to wind their neck in.

There are LOTS of reasons why people lose touch with relatives or just don't have a close relationship. I haven't seen any of my cousins for at least 20 years. They are all 20+ years older than me and we grew up at opposite ends of the country. However, it's not difficult for me to comprehend that people who grew up seeing their close them in age cousins regularly may have a different relationship.

If the person concerned really didn't want contact or to be checked up on beyond a yearly card, then you cannot force that. We all know that no-one on MN ever opens their door and should know that "no is a complete sentence", and that imposing yourself on someone who doesn't want you there is grounds for logging it with the Police.

But it's OK to stick the knife into the shocked OP, who respected her relative's wishes?

Fuck that. Not everyone plays happy families with distant relatives and some people are most happy to be left alone.

A similar thing happened with my FIL. He had terminal cancer and whilst we did keep in contact, it was only maybe once every two weeks or so and he hardly answered the phone anyway.

No real reason, my husband and him were close but he was quite independant and liked his space/own company.

I got a funny feeling one day and couldn't get hold of him (he lived about 60 miles away) and after phoning round a few hospitals and his local police station. They did a wellness check. The next thing I remember if the police knocking on our door to tell us he had passed away in his flat, alone. He had been dead for just under a week by the time he was found.

At first my husband and I did feel guilty, but over time we began to realise that there was nothing we could have done differently or that my FIL would have wanted for us to differently. He enjoyed his independant life and if we had been bugging him all the time, he would have told us to piss off (he always had a way with words lol).

Don't blame yourself. Relationships work both ways and I'm sure if she wanted it any differently she would have reached out. She may have been perfectly happy with her life the way it was.

The fact you feel like this now shows you are not bad people. It's a normal reaction to a distressing situation like this. Don't be hard on yourself

You have to learn to forgive yourself. You respected your relative's wishes and they lived as they wish to live.

When my time comes I would like to either go peacefully in my sleep or by my own hand.

The way your relative chose to live is the way I choose to live. I have one nephew who visits me weekly - he would come more often if I asked him but I dont. I have very little contact with my sibling and her family and we were not close as children. I never had children - by my own choice. I love my own company.

The fact is I have my own interests and pastimes and I dont wish to be pestered and interrupted. I dont bother with neighbours or even open the door unless Im expecting someone or a parcel. I just cant be bothered with people. Im grateful to my nephew for visiting and doing any little jobs I cant manage. But Im always glad when he leaves and I have my privacy again.

OP, I'm sorry that you feel that you need to take the thread down. I hope it's not because you have been hurt by the tiny minority of people who have posted cruel and completely unnecessary comments.

Your last update re-enforces the perception that most of us already had that your relative was leading the life that she wanted and that there was nothing more which you and your family could or should have done for her. Please try to take some comfort from the overwhelmingly supportive comments which most people have posted.

If none of her friends or neighbours knew she had relatives, I would say you have no need to feel guilty.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]For anyone who hasn't seen it nor read the piece, Carol Morley addresses this topic in her documentary but about a younger woman with a very different life and who died of natural causes at the age of 38, to lie undiscovered for years: Joyce Carol Vincent: How could this young woman lie dead and undiscovered for almost three years?

John shook his head and sighed. "She died of neglect. We all loved her, but not enough to stop her dying."

On the train back to London, I reflected on how nobody she knew really worried about Joyce when she fell out of touch with them, as she often did – they just thought she was off somewhere having a better life than they were. Her aspirations and desires, her immaculate way of presenting herself, masked any deeper troubles she may have had.

www.theguardian.com/film/2011/oct/09/joyce-vincent-death-mystery-documentary[/quote]
Wow

I think that those posters who put a link to the Carol Morley article, especially including the quote from John, should be ashamed of themselves.

It's completely inappropriate on a thread which has been started by somebody who is already feeling guilty (although she has absolutely no reason to feel bad) because of the circumstances surrounding the death of her relative.

(I think that those posters who put a link to the Carol Morley article*

I''m surprised that was your reaction to Morley's thoughtful and sensitive exploration of this topic both in longform writing and the documentary. Is it possible that you misconstrued her sympathetic exploration for how this happens and the shock that people feel on hearing about it and the natural reactions that they have?-

People have the right to live life on their own terms when it comes to most decisions. The OP's relative might well have felt it an unwelcome intrusion to hear more often from people. OP honoured her decision.

@MariaAngustias so sorry you are getting anything other than support here.

Having local friends and volunteering in a shop you would have thought they would keep a look out for her/report her missing. If in the last few years she is clearly capable to have a job/car and had made it clear she didn’t want contact then you have done absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn’t have done anything different.
Nice people being mean to the OP to make yourself feel better.