To hate what covid has done to the rest of the health service

[Dishwashersaurous]

I need an operation. Haven't seen a consultant in over a year due to covid. Finally, following telephone appointment I've been listed for the surgery.

I'm in constant pain and barely able to get out of bed most days.

I phoned to find how long the waiting list is. Due to covid its over a year.

I then investigated taking out a loan to go privately. The private wing at the hospital have just told me that due to covid they are not doing any overnight stays for months.

So I will probably lose my job ic I have to wait until a year. And I will be in constant pain. And all due to covid

4.7 million people are waiting for an operation. 400, 000 for over a year.

And in my particular case I have discovered that my individual consultant works at four different private hospitals. So if I am willing and able to pay thousands of pounds i can be treated in weeks.

Therefore the issue is not a national shortage of doctors and nurses. Its that they are not being used in the NHS.

My Mum died yesterday from cancer which had become very advanced due to not being seen by her Doctor early enough (it was closed to appointments for weeks), then mishandled diagnoses and tests, then by the time we did her a CAT scan was too advanced to treat. She had shielded all through the time required, and from CAT scan to yesterday it was 5 weeks rapid deterioration. I have spoken to others that this has also happened to due to the pandemic and shortages of front line staff etc, but this situation definitely shortened her life. We are all totally devastated by this loss.

@Dishwashersaurous

And in my particular case I have discovered that my individual consultant works at four different private hospitals. So if I am willing and able to pay thousands of pounds i can be treated in weeks.

Therefore the issue is not a national shortage of doctors and nurses. Its that they are not being used in the NHS.

That's also because the nhs cannot afford them full time and when they are nhs they are so profoundly over stretched and under pressure.

Even private services (which I've paid for DS, can't afford it for myself) are stretching themselves with so many paying for what they're not able to get right now.

It bloody sucks though, it really does.

If you can, go private.

It's a shame that this is what people actually think. Our hospital paid to use private facilities in a bid to try and keep things going. They shelled out thousands and then the offer was withdrawn. In the meantime our ITU went from 30 beds to 90 and we had to convert other areas to facilitate the increase. We had drs acting as ITU nurses, most of our staff were redeployed. People seem to have this idea that the doors have been simply shut and nothing happening when the reality is very very different. It's an awful situation and I absolutely understand that thousands need help but there's a suggestion that the NHS just doesn't care and particularly only cares about covid. I'd love to know what people think should havee been done. The staff I've worked with are exhausted by the sheer volume and intensity of their work, with many having had very little time off because they want to limit the impact of patients.

I appreciate you are in pain (as am I incidentally with a nasty bout of sciatica which has gone on for 6 months now) but you are alive

Would you say that to someone with long Covid. That they are in pain but they are alive. Bet you wouldnt.

People left in excrutiating pain do end up considering suicide as a way out. I know i did back in 2002/early 2003.

Oh biffster I’m so sorry

I am hugely grateful for the NHS and pre COVID-19 we'd had a pretty much faultless service (DC3 is disabled and I have arthritis, diagnosed 3 years ago) but come January 2020 everything stopped.

No-one has seen my DC3 in person for 15 months. She is under at least five different teams. She was 9 months overdue a blood test and we had to go over to her consultants hospital (they couldn't arrange it with our GP????) But we couldn't see the consultant. Even though we had to arrange childcare / pay for transport £60+ to go over. Consultant was and is seeing some patients in person but was unable to see us as she was so booked up.

DC3's condition means she is globally delayed. We have a weekly private physio session in place but she is non verbal aged 3 and her SLT haven't seen her in person since late 2019.

She started nursery (to be fair her SEN placement was supported by the "absent" Dietitian and SLT) but we've been left to get on with it. Private Speech sessions are imminent.

All my appointments (barring blood tests every 10/12 weeks) have been telephone. Generally I've felt quite supported and I've had a medication change which has been well managed, despite me not being seen in person since late 2019. BUT I'm lucky that I am in a period of remission as if I was flaring i'd be fucked. Mid flare I need to be given steroids, which they aren't offering (except in rare cases) due to COVID-19.

It's so hard not to feel aggrieved and cheated. So much has been lost and for so many.

I see this from both sides, unfortunately it does come down to both capacity and funding. Professionally speaking I work in an outpatients department we have families desperate to be seen & calling up most days (understandably) and we also have families repeatedly not turning up for their appointments. It is frustrating but people are still frightened & some people cannot afford to attend I'm sure. We also have to ensure there is space to socially distance within the hospital so we cant see as many families as before, making our waiting times even longer. I work in paeds so we can't just discharge patients who don't attend, they need to keep being given appointments. On the flip side, after months I was able to see my GP face to face and I was placed on the urgent 2 week cancer pathway... 9 weeks ago. I have my appointment next week and I'm sure it will go well but I can understand the upset this has caused people so I try to understand when patients come in and are more fractious than usual. I feel sorry for all of those still waiting, we are trying our best & don't want you to be waiting either. We are waiting too.

@biffster so sorry to hear about your Mum.

I really do wish we could do better, for you, for your Mum and for everyone waiting for any kind of treatment.

The NHS is a humongous organisation and there will be a few bad apples but it is generally made up of a lot of good people who try their best every single day and I don't just mean front line staff. We are all doing our bit in whatever small way we can.

They mostly don't want to be clapped or thanked but I think we should carefully about what we expect of the people in the nhs who make it work and direct the criticism to the people who deserve it.

Most of the doctors I know who do private work is so they can pick and choose when they work so they have a better work life balance than full time NHS work. There is such poor flexibility in the NHS and so much expectation. Feels like every time there is an election looming or they need some good PR our Westminster overlords announce more ridiculous targets and expect us to just achieve them with bo extra cash or resources. I've had to fight tooth and nail at board meetings to keep training days for staff I manage because it's often something that on paper looks like it can be cut. Then a terror attack or pandemic happens and they are wringing their hands together wondering why there are not enough specialist trained staff. My friends in the cancer centre say the same. Not every nurse can give chemo, you need to have special training. In Jeremy Hunt's days the govt made promises of new targets for cancer treatment. Courses cost money...who pays for nurses to have chemo training? Who pays for the cover while cancer nurses are having that study days? Where does the money come from? Never seems to materialise but because there's "targets" now we have to magically achieve them or the trust receives financial penalties. So they'll cut service somewhere else until there's a target for that and so on and so on.

It makes me absolutely sick that we are paying for toiletries from our own money to wash patients' hair, we're buying the stuff to take handprints of dying people for their relatives. The memory boxes which provide huuuuuuge comfort for bereaved children come from charity money and the politicians have 3 meals a day plus drinks comped off our tax. It's a fuckong disgrace.

managers are tasked with improving services at the same time as reducing costs rather than being allowed to make investments which will see long term improvement. There is no long term view it's all about pressure to save save save in the short term.
There is no flexibility in the system to allow the people who can make improvements the ability to do so.
Cost pressures result in staff being expected to do more and more for less and less, then you get staff leaving and now we have a chronic staff shortage.

I'm both a public health consultant and a GP. I'm currently working as a clinical lead for a specific service associated with covid response. It's a national role. I have no resources other than a couple of 8a service improvement managers who are on their knees. They working 14 hour days firefighting. They don't have time to think, to plan or to do quality improvement. I have a partly clinical role so spend a good proportion of my day dealing with patients who blame me, blame hospitals, blame these mythical managers who do nothing all day.....and fail to blame the real architects of the disaster. The govt.

The idea that the NHS is full of managers is a myth. It is actually under,managed and there are few admin staff. If it was adequately funded and had an adequate level of management, then believe me the frontline could be left to get on with the job with the resources and money they need.

Biffster so, so sorry about your mum 💐

Blame wee krankie for that, not government

@SecretSpAD thank you. That is a perfect example of exactly what I meant.

@Dishwashersaurous I truly feel for you. DS is a healthcare worker, last July he was seriously assaulted by a patient and sustained very nasty facial injuries.
His surgery in September was cancelled less than 24 hours before it was due thanks to the second Covid wave.
He's had lots of complications but today saw the consultant. Got told his operation is suspended until further notice and that it will be one to two year delay at least.

@Dishwashersaurous

Therefore the issue is not a national shortage of doctors and nurses. Its that they are not being used in the NHS.

I'll fix this for you. It's that the NHS is unable to retain doctors and nurses.

This is down to crap pay and working conditions.

Which are decided by the government.

They are the people you need to direct your ire towards.

I've been banging on about staff recruitment and retention for ages. My tweets about how important it is go back to Andrew Lansley as health secretary. Instead we have had fucking crap decision after crap decision since then which have decimated the workforce.

We have fewer hospital beds/ head of population than most of mainland europe and fewer staff.

We have an ever widening gap between the health of the richest and poorest in society. I work with children so I am seeing kids who will carry the burden of this for the rest of their lives.

Responsibility for this whole mess lies with the government not those working in the NHS. It wasn't all sunshine and roses under labour but the NHS functioned better before austerity and the health inequality gap narrowed while they were in power.

However despite all this and the mismanagement of covid and yet more allegations around government money being diverted (or attempted to be) diverted to Tory cronies they still have an obscene lead in the opinion polls so I think the country is reaping exactly what it sows.

It is so bloody depressing.

Acovic

I agree wholeheartedly.

No one has been listening despite many people banging on about under investment in the NHS for decades.

Brexit was won partly due to a recognition that the NHS needed more funding.

And yet there are real terms cuts

@Dishwashersaurous

Acovic

I agree wholeheartedly.

No one has been listening despite many people banging on about under investment in the NHS for decades.

Brexit was won partly due to a recognition that the NHS needed more funding.

And yet there are real terms cuts

It's almost like every politician is completely useless and corrupt.

Oh wait..

Basically the NHS is pretty fucked. It needs massive investment to keep up with health demands anyway and covid has exposed this fact by putting such huge pressure on it. I think we all need to pay more in via taxes in order to get an NHS and social care system that is fit for purpose.

@cansu

Basically the NHS is pretty fucked. It needs massive investment to keep up with health demands anyway and covid has exposed this fact by putting such huge pressure on it. I think we all need to pay more in via taxes in order to get an NHS and social care system that is fit for purpose.

Yes this. People want an excellent healthcare system but don’t want to pay more for it. I would be happy to pay a “ring fenced” health tax.

@cansu

Basically the NHS is pretty fucked. It needs massive investment to keep up with health demands anyway and covid has exposed this fact by putting such huge pressure on it. I think we all need to pay more in via taxes in order to get an NHS and social care system that is fit for purpose.

Agreed. We paid specifically towards heallthcare where I am from. I would have no issues with it here. Organisations can't run on wishes🤷🏻

many areas offers nothing better than a very basic service

It was never intended to be anything but a basic service. The problem, clearly exhibited on this thread, is that people want a Rolls Royce health service while paying Robin Reliant taxes. You can’t have it both ways.

@AfternoonToffee

Well Labour didn't exactly leave the NHS in a good place. PFI's have had a massive impact on budgets. Yes, the Tory's have run it down further, but I am not sure if any political party has much desire to change things.

Just to add though, not every consultant was pulled into covid care, they were still there for emergency care.

Labour left it in an infinitely better place than it is now. You only have to compare waiting times in May 2010 with those in May 2019 to see that. There was huge investment in the NHS in the first ten years of this century then bloody Lansley not only wasted tens of millions on his farce of a reorganisation but the Cameron government reduced spending in real terms.

Even John Major said putting the NHS in the Tories’ hands was like asking Herod to babysit your children.

@MissyB1

I’m not convinced that people don’t want to pay for it actually. I believe people would be willing to pay higher taxes and NI if we actually received better quality public services. I say this as someone who works in the public sector and some of what I see is just a shambles.