How do people in public sector jobs afford to live in London/SouthEast?

[KateSW1983]

Always been curious about how people in public sector jobs can afford to live in London and get on the property ladder? We live in London but earn a good wage between the two of us. Looking around us - I genuinely have no idea how teachers, nurses, policemen, staff in museums, libraries etc manage to live in London. They clearly do and London obviously needs them but how to do they manage to afford living in this city? Clearly not everyone leaves the South East, but I do often wonder why people stay and how they can afford to stay.

Council flat

When I worked in London as a trainee paramedic (80% of the bottom of band 5) I rented a tiny bedroom in a house share, pretty much all my wages went on rent, bills and food, I was lucky to have anything left over and due to the nature of my work I wasn't out having a great time spending money, I was the one picking up those who overindulged off the streets. I worked 8/10 weekends mostly nights. It was existing more than living tbh. I worked in central and east London and most of my colleagues who intended to stay long term lived in Hertfordshire, Essex, and Kent and commuted into London for their shifts. A few owned houses in the Midlands or up north and lived in motorhomes on station during their run of shifts.

It's not just a current thing. I work in the public sector and lived in a south London house share twenty something years ago because I couldn't afford to rent a flat by myself even then. There was absolutely no prospect of me affording to buy anything, even on a professional public sector salary. I moved abroad for a couple of years to work, saved a very healthy deposit and when I moved back to the UK didn't even contemplate London. Bought a house in the Midlands and here I've happily been ever since. I find the whole property market incredibly depressing.

@Cocomarine

There was someone posting here the other day, with a central London council flat for under £500 a month. There actually are still housing association properties around!

Not many though, mostly those who are older. It's increasingly difficult for anyone but those in the most desperate life circumstances to get social housing in London and a lot of the SE. It definitely used to be the case that nurses, teachers, fire service and others lived in good quality social housing. Decades of right to buy, buy to let, rising demand, and the house price bubble has taken a very heavy toll.

@Hothammock but you were buying with two salaries. As a single person it would be very different.

I work for the NHS. No way I could afford my house now (it's 9 X our combined salaries) and we had to do this house up and the house before to afford this at all. I do feel very sorry for younger people in the public sector. I think the idea of retraining to do something capitalist (maybe meaningless?) does not sit well with everyone and I for one am very committed to the NHS. At the higher pay bands we actually earn quite a lot less than if we worked privately but many of us don't want to. I am not sure younger people will be able to make such a choice - at least not in the SE.

As has been mentioned some public sector earns okay, e.g. I know teachers on 45k+ who have managed to buy (just) in Zones 2/3 in not the hottest areas of London.

However DH works in public sector where average salary is probably ~£30k (starting at 20k but need to be a manager to get over 35k and much fewer roles at that level).
The only way we afforded it is because I work in the city. Looking at his colleagues they all fit into one of these:

1. Spouse who earns £££
2. Single/spouse also in public sector but parental help
3. Aged 40+ and got on the ladder earlier
4. Aged 30-40 and stuck in a smaller accommodation than they would like but priced out of moving up
5. Renting and do not foresee ever buying (almost all those under 30)

Both DH and I work in middle management roles in the public sector. We have a toddler and rent a new build flat from a housing association, but under their private rental banner in N.London (c.£1,450 pcm for a 2 bed)
We are lucky enough to have family nearby who can do some childcare which saves on the extortionate childcare fees we’d have to pay if our ds was full time. This means that we are able to save toward a mortgage deposit each month.
We reckon that we’ll have enough for a 10% deposit on a 500k 3 bed by late 2023/early 2024... but that’s if prices don’t continue to rise like how they have been. 500k is the minimum as well because that’s the lower end for homes within a 3-5 mile radius

The thought of moving too far out of London isn’t appealing to us because we’re also ethnic minorities and I had a rough time being the only minority where I grew up in hants... I’d hate to do that to my ds. Plus family, amenities etc are here.

The people I know who have already bought around our age (late 20’s/early 30’s) had family help either in the form of large cash gifts from parent and/or grandparents, or parents who were willing and able to take our family springboard type mortgages where they basically put their house on the line as a guarantee you’d pay your mortgage. Family help is much more common than people would like to admit.

DH and I are both teachers on the outskirts of London. We're both "middle leaders" so ok salaries but certainly nowhere near HT salary (both earn between (£40-£45K). I only reached that salary recently though as was part-time for a few years after having DC and earned only half as much. Luckily, DH worked in a much better-paid sector for a few years before teaching and was able to get on the housing ladder in the early 2000s. If it wasn't for that we would probably only be able to afford a flat in our area and would most likely have had only 1 DC. I would never have been able to work part-time. DH has a DC from a previous relationship so we couldn't move to a cheaper area.

I'll be encouraging my DC to look for better-paid jobs, unless they want to move to a different part of the country. All our family etc are in the South East so they have no connection to anywhere else.

Everyone I know had significant help from family in some form. Like £50k+. DH’s family gave/invested over £150k to us & also DBIL & bought DSIL a flat outright. another friends’ family bought her £500k flat for her outright, another’s family rents flats and basically did mates rates on selling her the first flat, which then went up in value + help to buy number 2. Another did shared ownership then inherited ££ which allowed them to actually have a chunk of equity.

When I worked with a lot of people on low wages, they literally lived hand to mouth, the company cocked up and paid wages a day late & staff were literally being given £3 from petty cash to pay tube fare to get to & from work.

Living in London on low wages is grim.

Not RTFT but this is why I left! Felt forced out as couldn’t afford to live without housemates being single at the time. I miss London and wish it was more affordable. I was a teacher btw.

I bought a shared ownership flat in 2009 designated for keyworkers (before everyone was one). I kept it for six years and made a profit and when now DH moved in we were able to save enough that convinced with the equity we could then buy a house, a complete etch/project. Not London but home counties. It is rubbish when people who do the same jobs as us in a much much cheaper part of the country earn the same but can afford a much better quality of living. I've already been priced out of London where I grew up, I don't see why I should have to move hundreds of miles away from my family and support network too and if we all did it London and the South East would be fucked for public services.

I've had a council flat in zone 1 since I was 23 so I was able to live without flatsharing, working in the arts sector. Bought it two years ago under RTB with a £100k+ discount. My brother who has a well-paid job and bought a flat in zone 4 worked out that he has the same disposable income as me after the cost of his mortgage etc. Quite a few friends/family members are in council flats, others in shared ownership, others have very high earning partners (£200k+). Others work at a senior level so they have very decent salaries, despite being in the public sector.

It's saving for the deposit which is the killer really. So unlike the MN mantra of 'out you go and be independent at 18' I'm hoping my DSs stay at home with me while studying and then working and saving. I live in Oz, so there isn't as much of a mentality of going off to a University far away from home that requires you to live away though. So the majority of their friends will likely be doing similar.

I have two friends who are in the Met. They both live outside of London and take the train to work and travel for free.

@RandomMess yes I can see your point but trying to but when you already have children is just going to be really difficult. You have more far more outgoings and require far more space.
This is really part of the point. If you want to own property, you need to start off small before you have other commitments like children. It's too late when you have other financial responsibilities.

@Historytoo yes of course it is easier to buy with two salaries, you have more spending power. You are likely to have more options as a first time buyer whereas when you are just a single person you may need to buy a studio or one bed to get started. Still doable however.
Several Single Colleagues in my public sector work place in their mid to late 20s are buying a 1 bed flat in areas of the south east after a few years of hard saving and I don't recall anyone I'm thinking of drawing on the bank of mum and dad for anything more than wall paper or a toaster.
Of course this is NOT doable if they had been insisting on renting a nice one bed somewhere instead of living somewhere cheap to enable them to save for a deposit. You must be determined to save and sacrifice and commute. Anyone who wants a 3 bed semi in a good neighbour as their first time buy along with all their own lifestyle choices is going to be disappointed. Life doesn't work that way!

My relative is police and he's buying this year. It's a combination of-
He's very frugal and has never seen avocado toast in his life
He lived with his parents until late twenties to save up
His parents helped with a deposit
His partner is a doctor and they are buying together
They are buying just outside London to commute in.

Honestly, most people I know have had family help to buy and if parents weren't able to help with a deposit they allowed their kids to stay living at home rent free to save up.

I don't work in public sector. I would love to. Private sector average salaries are low, no pension, sick full pay, rubbish maternity leave, safe job, proper HR procedures. Public sector in UK is very often on very high salaries and people working there think that private sector pays everyone £100 k per year.

Shared ownership.
Renting forever.
Living with parents.
Travel in from cheaper areas.
Money from parents.
High earning partner.
House/flat share.
Buying buy to let in cheaper area for retirement.

Same as everyone else who doesn't earn ££££.

London and the SE will struggle more and more to recruit, and particularly retain, decent nurses, teachers, doctors, police, and other essential occupations if something isn't done about the out of control housing prices

I think the public sector employers may have to consider a SE England pay enhancement if they are to retain staff. I live more than 50 miles from London, but property here is considerably more expensive to rent or buy than in parts of outer London.

When staff can get the same salary for the same job in parts of the country where housing is cheap, retention and recruitment in the SE are going to get more and more difficult.

@Hothammock ouch! I think that you may be forgetting that for a single person it can cost almost as much in rent as for two people sharing a room so ability to save is less. Lots of people do live somewhere cheap and are very frugal - I was one of them- but still can't afford even a one bed flat on a public sector salary. I could buy a two bed terraced house in a decent area in the city I live in now for half of what a studio flat in greater London cost. And I've moved up the property ladder because I married and the combined spending power -not the same as disposable income- of DH and I combined is greater than for a single person. Lots of things are cheaper as a couple. There is, and will continue to be, difficulty in recruiting more experienced /older public sector workers in London and the south east. Why put yourself through a long commute on expensive and crowded public transport which doesn't always run to time, especially when you have to factor in childcare, when you can get a job local to a cheaper housing area? The public sector in London has depended for years on overseas workers being there for a relatively short period of working experience. New Brexit rules mean that will be harder going forward and housing is a key factor as to why recruitment is so difficult.

@Ninjasan

I don't work in public sector. I would love to. Private sector average salaries are low, no pension, sick full pay, rubbish maternity leave, safe job, proper HR procedures. Public sector in UK is very often on very high salaries and people working there think that private sector pays everyone £100 k per year.

Admin roles in local government start at around £20k here, for a 37 hour working week.

NMW for a 37 hour week is now over £17k pa, so not exactly a massive improvement in salary.

Social workers start on £24k, which considering you have to have a degree (and a post-grad diploma, if your degree isn't in social work) is pretty shit, imo. A friend's daughter has recently left social work to join the police, because the money's so much better when you take into account shift allowances.

I concede that the other conditions of service are good compared to a lot of private sector jobs though. But all jobs should offer good conditions, especially sick pay and maternity pay.

As a child many of my parents friends were teachers and I know lots of teachers now. None of them have ever lived in social housing so I don’t know where a PP got that idea.

My dh used to work as a civil servant in London and we were talking about this yesterday.
We lived in Bucks and dh’s season ticket was bought up front and the cost taken from his monthly wage.
However commuting was not as expensive.
His season ticket now would be £3860.00
I really do think there should be a fair cap on season tickets. How can someone on minimum wage afford to pay the daily commute?