To think there are more people becoming poorer in the UK

[fullyfurnished]

I don't know if it's because I am and live in a working class area but I can see my area becoming more run down, loads more people on the streets, more crime, loads of people unemployed. I've been living in this area for over ten years and things are just going downhill. I know covid has resulted in alot of job losses but the slow decline has been gone on for awhile now.

Anyone else noticed this in their area?

I totally get why people in the top 20% of earners vote Tory: the selfish gene. looking out for number 1/family etc. Selfish, but there is some logic to it, even though it makes for a less pleasant, less happy and functional wider society. But Boggles the mind why others vote for them though. A relatively poor, underfunded education system I guess plus billionaires in the media telling them to vote against their interests.
As for house price, half of Tory MPs are landlords. And you want them to vote to make renting and buying more affordable? Good luck with that.

I think it's more about a growing gap between the low income/poor and the rest.

I've noticed things like meat being put in security cases again. A sure sign that shoplifting is on the rise. People need money crime levels go up

mental if you suggest they should maybe pay just a bit more tax

Of course but it’s how it’s presented by the dominant right wing press in the U.K. “Someone Else” benefits form your tax quids - not you! Only those single mothers/immigrants etc. You get nothing out if it. Despite the fact that only roughly 4/10 people are actually net contributors to the nations purse strings at all. But people swallow it, even the low paid.

We had a decade of austerity while we got the deficit down and then Covid hit.

I think most people are poorer. I had six months out of work. I've kept the house, but I'll have to work an extra two years beyond when I'd planned to retire.
Most people I know (who are relatively affluent) have put projects on hold, delayed a major purchase like a car, delayed having another child.
Those with the least will inevitably struggle more to get through a thin year. The fallout from Covid is going to last a long time

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/inequality-benefits-freeze-ons-brexit-theresa-may-labour-austerity-a8797416.html

In 2018....
Richest fifth of the population got nearly 5% richer. Poorest fifth got 1.6% poorer.

That’s what Tory government are for!

I went to a conference once where the speaker (from Child Poverty Action Group I think) said that had the austerity measures not been introduced, child poverty was on a trajectory to be abolished in this country by 2020.

Instead they were introduced and the trajectory has just been upward.
see here. The tories welfare measures have pushed many more families into poverty. The biggest rise in poverty is in working families. The group that will suffer the most post-pandemic will be the poor. It is obscene, and still people vote for them. (And I am a higher tax payer and would have no objection to paying more).

[quote Cam77]@bookworm1632
Just tax ALL personal income in exactly the same way no matter how it's derived.

That’s exactly what happens already . I’m afraid the only realistic way of getting MORE money in government coffers (especially with a Tory government) is A) getting the online multinationals to pay proper tax. B) cracking down on tax havens for the super rich.

The EU is/was keen on the second one. Tories not keen on either.

So all that leaves realistically is a better distribution of existing money - Eg prioritizing schools over nuclear weapons. Tories not keen on that either.

There’s a common theme here. Have you spotted it!?[/quote]
That’s exactly what happens already
No it's not.
Dividend income from shares is taxed at a lower rate than income earned as an employee in a job.
Sales of shares has a separate and higher capital gains tax-free allowance than income tax.
Both of these are massive tax breaks only available to people with plenty of cash to spend.

Dividends on shares held in ISAs aren't taxed at all

And the rate of tax you pay on capital gains is way lower than income taxes.
The taxes on rich people getting richer are tiny compared with those of us who have to work for a living.

I would say the UK never recovered from the 2008 financial crisis, and that is true also in many parts of Europe.

Covid is only going to make things worse.

savvy7
I disagree because you could increase the taxes of the very wealthiest without affecting the majority of the electorate.

This is no unrealistic. How long do you think it would take for their accountants to move their money offshore? They would end up paying less.

This happened years ago when Labour introduced a top tax rate of 96%, you couldn't see the rich and their money for dust, they all left the country.

I'm sure the Government could legislate for this if it had the political will to do so. Frankly I'd strip them of their British citizenship if they refused to pay the associated tax.

We've had a Conservative government since 2010. Of course people are becoming poorer and that is not just to do with Covid.

[quote Cam77]@bookworm1632
Just tax ALL personal income in exactly the same way no matter how it's derived.

That’s exactly what happens already . I’m afraid the only realistic way of getting MORE money in government coffers (especially with a Tory government) is A) getting the online multinationals to pay proper tax. B) cracking down on tax havens for the super rich.

The EU is/was keen on the second one. Tories not keen on either.

So all that leaves realistically is a better distribution of existing money - Eg prioritizing schools over nuclear weapons. Tories not keen on that either.

There’s a common theme here. Have you spotted it!?[/quote]
Not even close to be taxed the same way.

If you earn income via dividends, you pay a pittance in tax.

That's the whole point of the IR35 crackdown - to stop people simply switching from FT to Limited company while continuing to do the same job as it results in massive losses for HMRC. Now that fixes part of that loophole, although there's ways around it, but it completely misses for example the highest earners who will make MOST of their income via dividends.

Re [A] Interestingly enough, there's a worldwide drive currently to set a minimum Corp Tax GLOBALLY which would prevent some of the clever accounting from taking place - that's assuming that every country signs up to it, or those that don't then face sanctions from everyone else....

Why would you get rid of nukes? Ukraine did that - look where it's left them....

There's an even simpler thing we could be doing - everyone pay more in tax, and end this ridiculous obsession with always needing the latest gadget/car/kitchen suite etc etc

Course the Tories aren't keen on that either, but then again neither was Corbyn....

I see a lot more homeless people in my local shopping centre.

INeedAMinute
Biden is calling for an international solution to this exact problem as we speak:
Guess which government is currently refusing to back it?
(We're the only country in Europe stalling on this right now, probably because the Tory Brexit plan is to turn this country into even more of a tax haven for multinationals and high net worth individuals than it already is).

Your link doesn't suggest that - have Ireland signed up yet? From the link:

Ireland, which has a headline corporate tax rate of 12.5 per cent and has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of multinationals’ profit-shifting techniques, declined to comment on the US proposals.

But the finance ministry said it was “constructively engaging in these discussions” ...

The UK Treasury welcomed the US administration’s “renewed commitment to reach a global solution” and said that “updating the international tax rules to ensure that digital businesses pay more tax in the UK, in line with their economic activities, remains a UK priority”.

Your link also says:

Washington has threatened to apply tariffs to countries including France, the UK, Italy and Spain, among others, over digital taxes which US tech companies are being asked to pay.

@savvy7

Dividends on shares held in ISAs aren't taxed at all

You're confusing two separate things.

The dividends aren't taxed when they pay out.

But Corp Tax is paid before dividends are even allocated! If you increase Corp Tax, you reduce dividends payable across the board.

@Crankley

savvy7 I disagree because you could increase the taxes of the very wealthiest without affecting the majority of the electorate.

This is no unrealistic. How long do you think it would take for their accountants to move their money offshore? They would end up paying less.

This happened years ago when Labour introduced a top tax rate of 96%, you couldn't see the rich and their money for dust, they all left the country.

Good. Fuck them. They don't pay tax and they fuck off if we ask for it. Why would we want cheating scum like that here? Fewer greedy cunts - where's the downside exactly?

I was referencing the tax paid by an individual as the poster was referencing income earned as an employee in a job.

Yes, like this lovely fella ...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/phones4u-john-caudwell-leave-uk-monaco-taxes-corbyn-a8885796.html

That's the whole point of the IR35 crackdown - to stop people simply switching from FT to Limited company while continuing to do the same job as it results in massive losses for HMRC. Now that fixes part of that loophole, although there's ways around it, but it completely misses for example the highest earners who will make MOST of their income via dividends.

Actually IR35 is more to do with Companies' ability to dodge Employers National Insurance.

One reason HMRC have got twisted up into the whole IR35 mess, though is that Tories and Tory-lite parties don't want to scare the really rich - otherwise they could just tax dividend income like any other income.

And he can pretend all he wants that he's got the UK's most expensive house because that's what he needs in order to host the most lavish charity fundraising dances .... what an idiot

HelenHywater

weekend2021
I think if this is the case, it is quite often due to bad life choices and wrong priorities by individuals. I appreciate that many fall upon hard times through no fault of their own, due to redundancy, poor health etc. But credit is too easily available to ‘help’ people live the ‘Instagram dream’ without thinking through the consequences. It appears that many have a sense of entitlement to the latest IPhone, hot tub (😱), financed cars, several holidays a year etc etc. IMHO anyway.
Do you actually, honestly believe this to be the case?

“I work with people in poverty. They can account for every sorry pathetic penny they have. They can't afford to eat. Perhaps you should educate yourself rather than believe the shite on instagram?”

Yes, I do believe this often to be the case. I too work with people ‘in poverty’, have done for over 40 years. The ‘poorest of the poor’ are not those I was necessarily referring to, and like I said, they are quite often in impoverished circumstances through no fault of their own. I was referring more to those parts of society who although on a low income, make poor life choices, have poor priorities and a sense of entitlement, quite often influenced by the likes of Instagram - and I don’t believe any of the ‘shite’ you refer to on Instagram myself, as I don't ‘do’ Instagram, or any other type of Social Media, for the very reasons you allude to. Never have and never will, but I know that the masses do, which is why I used it in my example.
I would never suggest how anyone should spend their income, but it riles me when people on limited incomes spend £££££’s on the likes of the latest IPhones, endless takeaways etc etc and then cry poverty.
As for your suggestion that I should ‘educate myself’ I can assure you that isn’t necessary. I’m entitled to my informed opinion as much as anyone else on here thank you.

Yes, most definitely. There simply isn’t the funding* for the basics, never mind anything else.

*Plenty of money though. Just not for the plebs.