Reporting benefit fraud

[Pandemicfundswhattodo]

Have nc'd for this.

Have you ever reported benefit fraud? Would you report covid-19 financial fraud (getting support when not needed and having to lie to do this)?

Sadly worried about karma as we are always told to "not tell tales" but this family have received thousands in help from the government over the last year and have been claiming UC fraudulently as well.

Before anyone asks ... yes we do know the above are facts. Would you even think twice?

Also there is no need for me to be worried about karma as have never claimed anything fraudulently so that feeling has no need to be there, it is just me feeling guilty!

[Enoughenoughalready]

I would report. If they’ve done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about.

If they’ve been stealing - because that IS what it is - then hell mend them.

I don’t see why I have had to work my arse off for 35 years to keep ticking along when someone can have a better life at my expense.

There are plenty who really need it and I would prefer they were helped.

There does indeed seem to be an honour amongst thieves..

[skirk64]

Report them. If you worry about "karma" then consider that karma will happen to people who know something is wrong and have the power to take action but choose not to.

[KoalaOok]

@Manzanilla55 makes a really good point. Put your safety first. You don't want to end up intimidated or worse and if they are committing fraud you don't know what else they can do.

[Pandemicfundswhattodo]

Going to try and answer some of the above questions without being too outing!

Not scared/ concerned about family.
Not furlough and UC....seiss and UC. So yeah it is thousands.

Now waiting for the next seiss payment to be made they have claimed all of them but have been working since end of first lockdown.

Don't want to say too much more as I really don't want to be too outing but it's difficult to do while trying to give you as much info as possible!

We do know 100% but not Facebook or sm based and not seen bank statements. There are other perfectly legitimate ways of knowing something 100% but would be outing to say.

Any impact/stopping of their benefits will not have any impact on their financial status, money they have been earning is sat in a non-linked bank account. Dc are older teens.

It does seem like I know an awful lot about this but this has come from months of things slowly becoming obvious and various other proofs that I can't mention as too outing!

[Pandemicfundswhattodo]

@skirk64

Report them. If you worry about "karma" then consider that karma will happen to people who know something is wrong and have the power to take action but choose not to.

That's a really good point thank you!

[Eyevorbig0ne]

It's up to you. In my job, I calculate entitlement to an allowance. Person claiming covid and single person council tax discount.
But the tenancy agreement is joint names 🙄
Just one example...

[Dingleydel]

Now waiting for the next seiss payment to be made they have claimed all of them but have been working since end of first lockdown.

I was under the impression that with the 1st lot of siess grants (not 100% on the later ones) all self employed people who met the criteria were allowed to claim, irrespective of whether they were actually still earning. There are no checks in place are there? So they are essentially depending on trust. For instance there are many tradesmen who have still be able to work through the pandemic, are we really expected to believe that they haven’t claimed a nice little pay out? It’s very complicated as some SE people are managing to do some of their usual work, but income has been reduced, but there is no option for half seiss as far as I’m aware. I think that UC gets reduced on the month you get the grants but again not sure on that. As a self employed person unless you could have been 100% sure your income wouldn’t be affected why wouldn’t you claim? It sounds like they have used the scheme when they shouldn’t have done so but I wouldn’t report. Have they been getting paid in cash as surely on their next tax returns all their ordinary earnings will come to light?

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

Yes I would report without a second thought if I had suspicions.

I always wonder if those who wouldn’t report would watch someone breaking into a house or car and do nothing either. Theft is theft regardless.

[omgwhy]

It's the scheme that's flawed not them, most people claiming self employed grants have continued to work.

What's you situation financially that makes you think you wouldn't of done the same if the government made such a mess of the system in place?

Basically the government put nothing in place to check whether there was an "impact" on business before self employed made claims so it's wide open for fraud.

I'd be more concerned about my own life tbh and stop trying to stick my nose into others.

[Upamountain43]

For me it would depend on the degree - someone earning a few extra quid doing some ironing for example I would look the other way.

Someone earning thousands and still claiming then I would think about it.

But i also get much angrier at the legal tax loopholes that the rich have ensured are in place to benefit them by far more.

[Dingleydel]

Reasonable belief
In order to claim the fourth grant, you must reasonably believe that you’ll suffer a significant reduction in trading profits, due to reduced business activity, capacity, demand or inability to trade due to coronavirus between 1 February 2021 and 30 April 2021. You must keep evidence that shows how your business has been impacted by coronavirus resulting in less business activity than otherwise expected.

HMRC expects you to make an honest assessment about whether you reasonably believe your business will have a significant reduction in profits.

From HMRC website. It’s seems deliberately very vague. Literally anyone who isn’t a key worker could have a reasonable belief that their income may be affected by a series of national lockdowns. There’s a lot of people who have claimed things they shouldn’t, such as all those 2nd home owners claiming for grants in their ‘holiday business’. Infuriating.

[Ifixfastjets]

What is seiss?

If I had the info you say you have, OP. I would report. From what you say, they dont need the money. There are plenty of other people that do!
I would rather see the money go to the people that should be given it.

[EverythingRuined]

I'd report them even if I was t 100% sure. I find it really weird that people wouldn't report suspected fraud. The fraudsters clearly don't give a shit about anyone else so why would you care about them.

[pinkearedcow]

Unless they are a professional benefits fraud outfit with dozens of fake claims I would not. If you don't have access to their bank statements, tax records etc. you can never be 100% sure.

[sst1234]

OP, it’s clear that they are taking the piss. They are taking from those who actually need the money. Posters telling you it’s no big deal are perhaps a little cognitively challenged. Benefit fraud takes from the little guy. There isn’t an infinite pot of money assigned to welfare, if some take more than they are entitled, others get less.

[HerMammy]

The self employed grants are deducted from your UC amount so you don’t really benefit from them.

[MaudesMum]

I've been claiming Seiss and still working as a self-employed person - its been allowed the whole way through - my income has dipped quite a lot and been pretty erratic but hasn't stopped. When I fill in my tax return for this year, HMRC will know that I've been claiming as well as working and the Seiss income will count as some of the income that I pay tax on. So, if they're reporting their self-employed income honestly then the tax system will catch up with them. Since you don't have to complete your tax return for the tax year that has just ended until Jan 22, you can't actually be sure that they won't be reporting honestly until then anyway..

[NailsNeedDoing]

While there’s a lot to be said for minding your own business, knowing about this fraud and having to carry that information for someone who is doing the wrong thing is obviously playing on your mind, or you wouldn’t have felt the need to start the thread.

In your position OP I’d report online and then forget about it. Allow yourself peace of mind in knowing that you’ve done the right thing and the problem will be dealt with by those whose job it is. Your only responsibility here is to pass on what you know and let the authorities do their job and make the judgment. If there’s something else going on and it turns out their claims were fine, then nothing will happen and there’s no harm done. If they have done something wrong then justice will prevail and they will be dealt with accordingly.

[ButterflyHoneyPot]

You can work and claim UC together.

[seashells11]

There isn’t an infinite pot of money assigned to welfare, if some take more than they are entitled, others get less

I don't think it works like that. There are set amounts of money for which ever type of benefit you're claiming. It isn't dependent on whether or not someone's committing fraud, the same way it doesn't go up when there's money left over from the vast amount that goes unclaimed.

[Dutch1e]

If you're certain the money is sitting idle, are you equally certain they're not being careful with it in case they're asked to repay it later?

I wouldn't report it. Until there's a top-down overhaul to stop the wealthy from making laws to protect their own it seems ridiculous to squabble over crumbs.

[thebillyotea]

Any benefit fraud steals money from someone who really needs it.

I always find it odd when people are happy about it, or can't be bothered to report. It's obviously not them who are missing out.
If you know something and don't report it, you are just as guilty.

[MrMucker]

How on earth do you know this level of detail about somebody's finances unless it is family or very close friends? Somebody who is confiding in you?

In which case, wow. How callous. You really are one to avoid.

[Flowers94]

I got reported to tax credits two years ago and they stopped an 890 a month payment (childcare entitlement) for three months whole it was investigated. My son lost his childcare placement and i became severly depressed just because someone decided they '100% knew' i was claiming fraudulently. I was not by the way.
Mind your own business, enjoy your own life and keep out of other peoples

[ThreeFeetTall]

@Eyevorbig0ne

It's up to you. In my job, I calculate entitlement to an allowance. Person claiming covid and single person council tax discount.
But the tenancy agreement is joint names 🙄
Just one example...

There are lots of people in that position- one person moves out and refuses to sign the paperwork giving up part of the tenancy, or they are not contactable, or there has been a reason why the remaining person doesn't want to contact the person that left. Try googling 'untidy tenancy'
It's not always fraud