Am I being manipulative or being manipulated?

[llamakoala]

I told my DP I wasn’t comfortable with doing something (due to current restrictions) and he kept going on about it and giving reasons why in his opinion my worries were “not logical” and that “no-one will question us”, etc.

I told him I’d be comfortable with it when the rules start changing further which mean it would be actually legal so I would have nothing to worry about.

I’m very much a rule follower and he’s a bit of a rebel.

I don’t want to go into what it is exactly as I don’t feel it’s relevant.

He kept going on about it over and over despite me saying NO and also that I didn’t appreciate him repeatedly pushing the issue when I’ve said I’m not comfortable with it. I then told him that if I gave in I would be extremely anxious for the whole period of time and that it’s unfair for me to feel that way for ‘X’ period of time and that the stress is not good for my body and mind.

He said that now I was making him feel guilty and that he felt it was unnecessary and not relevant for me to tell him about how it would make me feel anxious and how it would affect my body/mind as he already knows this!

I repeated something my Counsellor recently said to me which is that nobody can ‘make’ anyone feel a certain way. I said to him that if he is saying he is feeling guilty then surely deep down he must be feeling guilty (for pushing this issue) and that I’m not making him feel like that.

I’m no psychology expert but I think he might be projecting and not taking ownership of his feelings (I didn’t say this) - trying to force his guilt onto me because I won’t break the rules.

He told me that I was twisting things back into him and using reverse psychology (?) and told me to stop it! I don’t feel either of us have a good enough understanding of what RP even is to be throwing that phrase around.

We’re basically now at stalemate (although I’m not going back on my ‘NO’) because he seems to think I’m being unfair towards him (sounds like he’s accusing me of being manipulative) and I think he’s the one being unfair towards me! And deep down I’m now worried that he’s trying to manipulate me into saying yes.

AIBU? I don’t consider myself a manipulative person and only read up on psychology because it’s fascinating and because of past abuse - am I really doing something wrong here? Surely I can only analyse the situation to the best of my “non-degree but a fair few books read and various research done” level of psychology? He has recently said a couple of things about me apparently using “reverse psychology” - that just makes me wonder why he is feeling uncomfortable when I don’t feel I’m doing anything wrong.

I said to him my intentions are not in any way “untowards” at all.

🤷‍♀️

Would appreciate your thoughts!

He kept going on about it over and over despite me saying NO and also that I didn’t appreciate him repeatedly pushing the issue when I’ve said I’m not comfortable with it.

Why are you still with him?

I think he feels threatened that your counselling will allow the scales to fall from your eyes.

He said that now I was making him feel guilty and that he felt it was unnecessary and not relevant for me to tell him about how it would make me feel anxious and how it would affect my body/mind as he already knows this!

What's unnecessary is him pushing and pushing and pushing an issue you have already fucking responded to. He asked, you said NO, but apparently he doesn't like that answer so feels entitled to bully you half to fucking death about it.

What a manipulative prick.

You said no and gave your reasons- that should have been the end of the matter. He is the one being manipulative. He’s got a cheek telling you it’s ‘not relevant’ for you to talk about how the issue makes you feel. If he hadn’t kept banging on about it, you wouldn’t have felt the need to explain your reasons in such detail.

He's been manipulative. You are now setting boundaries and he does not like it.

Decent people don't push your boundaries.

Yes, he is manipulative.

Hmm the issue is important though, there was another thread with an OP going nuts because her husband had the temerity to not only go back to work but to attend a meeting, they'd both had Covid and been vaccinated. If you're saying similar he'd be within his rights to push back as that's ridiculous. If you're being rational and reasonable and he's still pushing them he's out of line. Can't really say one way or the other without knowing what you're so adamantly against.

You both sound like people who are unwilling to compromise, are trying to make the other person see if from your point of view, and digging your respective heels in.

Tip from an actual psychologist: stop trying to make the other person understand you, and start really listening and trying to understand them. Note that doesn’t (necessarily) mean agree, but be curious and open. It’s the only way out of deadlock like this.

You both sound like people who are unwilling to compromise, are trying to make the other person see if from your point of view, and digging your respective heels in.

OP is in therapy to assert her own boundaries. Of all the posts I'd have thought yours would have understood this the most. 🤔

Thank you BlueDahlia69 - I felt at a loss to respond to that.

I feel really upset at the moment and am trying to process everything - it’s all just churning round in my head. Thank you everyone for your comments.

I don’t want to say too much in case it ends up on the Daily Fail but DP wants me to stay overnight “for work purposes” somewhere so we can train in our sport that we haven’t been able to do during lockdown. We are not elite athletes. We were both previously instructors in our sport and let go due to lockdown. Technically he is still a registered instructor with an ID badge but I do not have a recognised qualification in it. I feel like his reasoning is extremely shady - maybe he’d “get away” with it because of his qualification - he can just flash his badge and say he’s training for when the work starts up again but I feel like I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if questioned.

I feel very sad that he’s essentially accusing me of being manipulative. It’s not my intention.

Like JenerationH said if he hadn’t pushed it and pushed it I wouldn’t have felt the need to bring up how anxious breaking the rules would make me feel. Surely my partner wouldn’t want me to feel like that :-/ in his mind it’s all justified and he talks around the situation is such a way to make it sound ok but I’m really not comfortable with it.

And I have been slowly upping my assertiveness and boundary setting although more so over the past couple of years and particularly more so since starting counselling.

He hasn't respected your boundaries and has then tried to use guilt to get round them.

I've noticed my DH does this when he doesn't like my responses but these days I stand firm - I've spent a lifetime letting people ignore my boundaries. It's a hard habit to break and like a pp has said, pushback is common.

Can't he just go alone?

Yes, he can, and he will be. I’ve said he should go alone for now and in around five weeks’ time when in theory the overnight stay restriction is removed then we can both go together. He kept going on about it after I’d said this though - even going on to say it would be a shame for me to miss out while the prices are cheaper, etc. And I said I’m not comfortable. We’ve gone there all year round before.

And then trying to say that I am “making him feel guilty” it would seem :-/

Obviously this isn’t the entire relationship but this situation is making me feel really crappy.

You can stay overnight at the moment, just not in a hotel. Air b&b or cottage.

Explaining your feelings is ok. What’s not ok, is that because your feelings are uncomfortable for him to hear, that he then tells you you’re being manipulative.

He's a manipulative prick.

"He kept going on about it over and over despite me saying NO and also that I didn’t appreciate him repeatedly pushing the issue when I’ve said I’m not comfortable with it. I then told him that if I gave in I would be extremely anxious for the whole period of time and that it’s unfair for me to feel that way for ‘X’ period of time and that the stress is not good for my body and mind."

He didn't accept a straight 'no', so you tried to explain why you were saying no, thinking if he understood the why, he'd let it go. Instead, he just tried a different tack, namely:

"He said that now I was making him feel guilty and that he felt it was unnecessary and not relevant for me to tell him about how it would make me feel anxious and how it would affect my body/mind as he already knows this!"

This was just an intensification of his badgering behaviour, a basic stepping-it-up-a-level because you were continuing to resist. And it's quite revealing, because it let's slip a few things -

1. he knew whatever-it-was would make you anxious
2. he still wanted you to do it, i.e. he wanted you to be anxious
3. he thinks he should never feel guilty for anything he does

"I repeated something my Counsellor recently said to me which is that nobody can ‘make’ anyone feel a certain way. I said to him that if he is saying he is feeling guilty then surely deep down he must be feeling guilty (for pushing this issue) and that I’m not making him feel like that."

Ooh, I bet he didn't like that ! And it's quite correct, only a sense of guilt, of having done wrong, can make a person feel guilty. But, just because he said it didn't mean he was actually feeling it. Accusing you of making him feel guilty was just another tactic on his part. He felt nothing of the kind.

"I’m no psychology expert but I think he might be projecting and not taking ownership of his feelings (I didn’t say this) - trying to force his guilt onto me because I won’t break the rules."

You're giving him too much credit. His 'feeling guilty' was just an illusion. What he was trying yo force onto you was to do as he told you.

If anything, it sounds like DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. He denied he was trying to guilt you into saying 'yes', attacked you for trying to make him feel guilty, and made you the offender and himself the victim.

"He told me that I was twisting things back into him and using reverse psychology (?) and told me to stop it! I don’t feel either of us have a good enough understanding of what RP even is to be throwing that phrase around."

Aw, diddums wasn't getting what he wanted (your compliance) as easily as he usually gets it, so he's reaching for more tactics to use against you. And it was not 'reverse psychology', not even close. You told him why you didn't want to do something, that's it.

"We’re basically now at stalemate (although I’m not going back on my ‘NO’) because he seems to think I’m being unfair towards him (sounds like he’s accusing me of being manipulative) and I think he’s the one being unfair towards me! And deep down I’m now worried that he’s trying to manipulate me into saying yes."

I expect someone who was selfish and had a huge sense of entitlement would think someone else was being unfair to them just by dint of saying 'no' to them. Doesn't actually mean that person is being unfair in the slightest. Just means your selfish prick of a partner is a selfish prick. And unfair to you.

One question - why are you with him? Because I would bet good money if you weren't, you'd probably have less need for counselling .

Why are you with him?

Ditch him.

Stick with your counselling.

He sounds like an exhausting nag that just can't accept the word no.

Awful combination.

Perhaps you are overthinking this and trying to dig too deep into the meaning of it all.

He's got the hump because you won't do what he wants, that's all there is to it.

No means no surely

You didn’t do anything wrong. You’re allowed to have boundaries. I’m the pushy partner and have just had to learn to accept when DP says no. Do I think he’s a stick in the mud? Yes, but ultimately no one should be badgered into doing something they’re not comfortable with. Don’t try and psychoanalyse him however, most people do find this annoying.

The whole “nobody can make you feel anything” is a nonsense trotted out by therapists (I am one and hear it all the time), our feelings are our own but some behaviours will elicit feelings in us.

You don’t want to do something, it’s fine to say so and not do it, it’s equally fine that he wants to and he can decide if he wants to do it alone instead. The whole point of boundaries is that you hold your own without manipulation and in turn aren’t manipulated into doing something that breaches your own boundaries.

In all honesty being in counselling can make you overthink things hugely, he’s unhappy because he wants to do it, you’re unhappy at the thought of doing it and don’t want to - neither of you are wrong in the way you feel.

I think he is accusing you of things that you havent done.

Firstly if someone says no and they are uncomfortable with something, I think it's a bit shit of that other partner to keep pushing and pushing it (unless maybe it's a minor thing that the vast majority of people would feel completely comfortable with, but in your case this doesnt apply, most people have been broadly following lockdown rules). I don't think there is anything he can say to justify this to be honest.

Secondly, because he has pushed you, all I can see that you've done is further explain to him why you dont want to go and how it would make you feel. That's all. In a relationship you should be able to tell your partner how their actions make you feel or how something that they are proposing will make you feel. That's just basic communication, not reverse psychology.

What is he saying you should do, not tell him how you feel? If he 'knew anyway' that it would make you anxious why was he pushing it so much? Was he expecting you to go along with something that he wanted that would make you distressed and just keep quiet about it?

I dont understand why he thinks telling someone your feelings, when you're being genuine, is manipulative. To me, being manipulative is when you are not being clear about your goals. Eg a controlling person will say 'I feel so sad and lonely when you go out' to try and manipulate their partner from going out rather than say 'I don't like you having your own friends and life away from me'. Or 'the kids wouldnt be able to cope if you went back to work, they'll think you dont love them' rather than 'I feel threatened by you earning money'. You were very clear you didnt want to go before you told him your feelings so you weren't trying to manipulate anything only explain.

In any case isnt reverse psychology pretending that you think the opposite to what you really feel? For example saying 'I bet you can't do that' to try and encourage the other person to prove you 'wrong' and actually do it. Mostly used with kids as they automatically do the opposite of what you say. So saying no to something and then explaining it would make you anxious isnt anything like reverse psychology.

To be honest he sounds like a bit of a shit

• trying to make you do things you dont want to do
• not waiting to listen to your reasons why
• implying you shouldn't talk to him about your feelings
• accusing you of various things like being manipulative and using reverse psychology in what seems to be a completely normal argument